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Jolla in 2017

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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 10.Nov.2017 16:11    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, I did not ever talk to them on IRC because no answers to multiple questions asked on their developer mailinglist and TJC convinced me that they won't answer anyway...
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Friday, 10.Nov.2017 18:52    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I'd really encourage you to attend a collaborative meeting. The topics are always discussed there.

Next meeting:Thursday 16th of November 2017 at 09:00 UTC. The meeting will be held on Freenode IRC, #mer-meeting ( http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#mer-meeting )

See here, how to attend and propose a subject: https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-colla boration-meeting-planning/
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ABCDKE
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PostPosted: Saturday, 11.Nov.2017 14:40    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Yeah Michal, give IRC a shot. The real geeks use IRC and nothing but IRC to communicate, so maybe that's why they didn't respond to you on TJC. You can't lose anything, can you? :]
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 14.Nov.2017 20:15    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

As for IRC, guys believe me, I asked those questions so many times on their mailinglist and TJC (where I KNOW they saw them) and got completely ignored so many times, that I really cannot force myself to do it yet another time. The topic is well known to them, so why would they give any reasonable answer on IRC if for 5 years they've been permanently refusing to talk about it EVERYWHERE else? In the very best case, I'd get something as meaningless as what Cybette wrote (for the first and the last time so far) in 2014 on TJC, i.e. "apps are really important to us and we think of it but we don't have any details to share ATM".

I know it may look strange, but I'm simply tired of it, having already asked those questions multiple times without absolutely any effect. Besides, if there's no one else but me to ask such questions and keep bugging them to finally refer to it in any way, it simply means that no one else on that platform actually needs it. Right? In normal circumstances it should be THE USERS permanently flooding Jolla with tons of such requests. Otherwise, it looks that there's no one to make apps for, no one that really needs them.
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 14.Nov.2017 21:24    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Fully understandable, Michal. Maybe someone else can jump in? Uncortunately I don't have time to attend to the meeting this time. Maybe on an upcoming meeting.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 15.Nov.2017 18:24    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Maybe someone else can jump in?

It would be great if someone could ask them, as it'd be an ultimate confirmation of their attitude. A simple question:

"Do you intend to support paid software in any foreseable future, or not. Please give a simple and straightforward answer: YES or NO". If "YES" then when. If "NO" then end of story.
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 15.Nov.2017 18:56    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Ok. I added the topic to the meeting planning wiki.

https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-colla boration-meeting-planning/

It's held tomorrow at 10:00 CET. I hope I will make it. Is there someone I could name as substitute?

Michal, I used your last sentence, hope this is ok for you...
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Thursday, 16.Nov.2017 00:54    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Michal, I used your last sentence, hope this is ok for you...

Sure. Let's see if there's any response to it.
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Thursday, 16.Nov.2017 12:39    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Ok. I attended to the meeting (while have a parallel phone call - that was something weird and true multitasking Shocked ).

See the meeting log here: http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2017/mer-meeting.2017-11-16 -09.00.log.html

The topic was discussed from 09:32:25 until 09:49:13.

There was no short "NO" answer. They have plans and it seems as if those plans are "unlike". That doesn't sound that good, as it doesn't tell anything about when it's ready (they said don't hold your breath for too long), but they want to do something about it. I suggested to use opera store or integrate payment system via opera store and they will discuss it (so they said).

The major obstacle for their (or any solution) is finish laws and problems with taxation they claim.

More info to read in the IRC log (see link above).

Hope that helps at least a bit.
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ABCDKE
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PostPosted: Thursday, 16.Nov.2017 16:25    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

09:34:31 <Jaymzz> Alright naytsyrhc I'm gonna go ahead and give you the answer you want: Short answer is yes. But it might not be implemented as you and I are used to. I can't comment much more at the moment because this still has a while on it and quite a way to go. But getting to the app ecosystem is very important for us indeed and we will get to it when it's time.

Fair enough...

Also, what's this "completely different thing, unseen in the mobile world" they mentioned a few times? I honestly don't quite like the sound of that. :]
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 17.Nov.2017 20:46    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, sorry to be totally disappointed, but it's PRECISELY the same old cr*p as what Cybette wrote in early 2014, i.e. "yes, we do plan to do it, we've got something very special about it, but we can't say anything about it at the moment". Then three and a half years of nothing. So I'm afraid that now there will be three years of nothing, too.

As for "Finnish law and taxation", I can't recall Nokia having any sorts of problems with running the Ovi store in Finland. I can't recall Jolla having any problems with selling the phone and accessories on their website, either. And, let's be serious, if Finnish law or taxes were indeed an ostacle, registering a small daughter-company (just to run the store) in any other EU member country (or anywhere else, e.g. in Russia where the majority ownership of Jolla is now located) would have been a trivial and obvious solution. I could catch a plane today and tomorrow have a business registered in any other EU country but Jolla can't?

As for "But it might not be implemented as you and I are used to", it is an INSANE idea to do things differently than what people are used to (and what works great for every other company), as in the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Especially if trying to do it in a different way than all those who succeeded in it causes that they haven't done it for 5 years and don't seem to be ready to do it anytime soon. It's like if they were stubbornly trying (and obviously failing) to create a bicycle with square wheels so that "it's not what you and I are used to".
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MeowTseDong
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PostPosted: Friday, 17.Nov.2017 22:30    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Michal Jerz wrote:
As for "Finnish law and taxation", I can't recall Nokia having any sorts of problems with running the Ovi store in Finland. I can't recall Jolla having any problems with selling the phone and accessories on their website, either. And, let's be serious, if Finnish law or taxes were indeed an ostacle, registering a small daughter-company (just to run the store) in any other EU member country (or anywhere else, e.g. in Russia where the majority ownership of Jolla is now located) would have been a trivial and obvious solution. I could catch a plane today and tomorrow have a business registered in any other EU country but Jolla can't?


The taxation pretence is just BS. Finnish laws are exactly like any EU country and there are *MANY* online stores in the EU that allows international payments. Maybe Jolla is too small or don't have the experienced staff to take care of the accountancy associated with the online store. Then you hire some company that can do that for you and there are many of those accountant companies out there in the entire world.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 17.Nov.2017 23:30    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Maybe Jolla is too small or don't have the experienced staff to take care of the accountancy associated with the online store.

But they DO have an online store with paid goods. In 2013 they processed some 15,000 - 25,000 online (pre)orders of their first phone (my device IMEI's incremental serial number part was around 13500 in December and then they sold a few more batches). Then they were selling accessories on their site. Now they sell Sailfish OS for Xperia X. Worldwide, online. They take online payments, do all the accountancy, pay taxes, deliver goods.

So how does it differ (legally, fiscally, technically) from selling apps? Obviously it doesn't differ at all.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 18.Nov.2017 14:27    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

ABCDKE wrote:
09:34:31 <Jaymzz> Alright naytsyrhc I'm gonna go ahead and give you the answer you want: Short answer is yes. But it might not be implemented as you and I are used to. I can't comment much more at the moment because this still has a while on it and quite a way to go. But getting to the app ecosystem is very important for us indeed and we will get to it when it's time.

Fair enough...

Also, what's this "completely different thing, unseen in the mobile world" they mentioned a few times? I honestly don't quite like the sound of that. :]


I don't really like the sound of that either. How could they change "You buy a license for a SW and download it", like many other online stores?

I still must go back to my previous opinion that the Jolla staff have no interest in commercial apps and refuse them because of ideological reasons. Even if they don't have the knowledge they can outsource running of the store and they get a cut from every sold app which in the long term will be easy money. Not even the long term goal of having a good flow of cash flowing in interests them.
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Saturday, 18.Nov.2017 14:32    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I know, it's not much. But at least they heard us and said they will discuss it. So maybe some short term solution eventually will be provided. As for the tax issue: maybe they have problems with their special solution and not in general. And: it's a different business to sell your goods/services from your store than running a store for 3rd party goods from different countries in case of taxiation. Not an impossible task but not straight-forward either.

Concerning the answer itself: if you read the log, you see, that they themselves admitted that this answer is not much better than cybettes was, but they claim that it is a totally different story now.

Concerning the special idea: there are rumours that it has to do with zipper.
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