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PSx Emulator for N95? Possible?

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76ers
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PostPosted: Monday, 19.May.2008 23:50    Post subject: PSx Emulator for N95? Possible?   Reply with quote   

hi,
i want to know if it is possible that there comes a PSx/PS1 Emulator for N95.
I saw that on an Ipod touch from a friend, but i think the n95's cpu and graphic chip is better.
could it also be possible that there comes an Sega Dreamcast Emu? i heard the graphic chip is from it in N95
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Quake3000
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 20.May.2008 00:35    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

well i guess it will be possible for a psx emu on n95 but it will sure be slow not sure if it even will be possible too optimize a psx emu to run decent on n95 tought it are one psx emu for the gp2x system that have the same cpu as it are in n95 not sure if it are faster or slower tough,,,and for the dreamcast emulator you can wish but it will not happend trust me a dreamcast are way too powerful to be emulated on a n95 maybe it will come on future phones with a 1ghz cpu and geforce 5 series or something! but i have my doubt! but you never know the future ho that live will know:) anyway ho that can give you a real answer for the psx emu are AG i asked the same question in the emu thread on a psx emu but he did say it will be really slow!
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Smell_U_Later
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 20.May.2008 07:17    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Windows Mobile and iPhone also has PS1 emulator, it's not really slow.
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extonix
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 20.May.2008 07:44    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Smell_U_Later wrote:
Windows Mobile and iPhone also has PS1 emulator, it's not really slow.


How much MHZ has the CPU of this [put your favorite swearword here] mobile phone?
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Smell_U_Later
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 20.May.2008 08:01    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

extonix wrote:
Smell_U_Later wrote:
Windows Mobile and iPhone also has PS1 emulator, it's not really slow.


How much MHZ has the CPU of this [put your favorite swearword here] mobile phone?

For example Asus P535 - 400 MHz. Not much higher than N95 has.
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AnotherGuest
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 20.May.2008 11:38    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

a) iPhone/iPod at least 30% quicker. PSX emu on iphone, so still not 100%.
b) SymbianOS phone design and software makes everything slower compared to both iPhone and Gp2x, for example video access and audio access usually drags Symbian emus down.

So it boils down to the HW platsform, and the sw platform put on top.Also its a good thing if the emulator actually compiles and runs on the Symbian platform, bsd and *nix platforms are "easier"
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Kazutoyo
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 20.May.2008 18:02    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

AnotherGuest wrote:
b) SymbianOS phone design and software makes everything slower compared to both iPhone and Gp2x, for example video access and audio access usually drags Symbian emus down.

Shame Symbian is so slow on those things. Now when there's a larger focus on a flashier UI and with the arrival of the new N-Gage, I hope there will be some more effort on speeding up the sound&graphics API functions.
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ganxta
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PostPosted: Friday, 30.May.2008 10:54    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

but we still can play quake 2 with open gl in full speed :-O. so i dont really think its impossible. and many people would pay much for an emulator like this.
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LucianoBraga
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PostPosted: Friday, 30.May.2008 16:07    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Smell_U_Later wrote:
[...]

For example Asus P535 - 400 MHz. Not much higher than N95 has.


P535 - 520 Mhz Xscale.

http://www.gsmarena.com/asus_p535-1780.php
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ganxta
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PostPosted: Friday, 30.May.2008 21:50    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

but its not just about mhz. look at this page :
http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.jsp

and you see ; n95 is FASTER as the iphone. cause it has the best 3d accelerator. if you would make a emulator especially for the power vr mbx, it will sure need less mhz. and i think if one dude can do this, than its ANOTHER GUEST Wink .
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76ers
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PostPosted: Sunday, 01.Jun.2008 14:32    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

look at this page

http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro&showhide=true&D 1=Nokia N95&D2=Apple iPhone
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extonix
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PostPosted: Sunday, 01.Jun.2008 20:44    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

76ers wrote:
look at this page

http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro&showhide=true&D 1=Nokia N95&D2=Apple iPhone


Just look at the CPU values and you will see the problem ...
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Kazutoyo
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PostPosted: Monday, 02.Jun.2008 11:16    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

ganxta wrote:
but we still can play quake 2 with open gl in full speed :-O. so i dont really think its impossible. and many people would pay much for an emulator like this.

An old Pentium 133 can run Quake 2 in full speed, but try to run a PS1 emulator on it.

ganxta wrote:
but its not just about mhz. look at this page :
http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.jsp

and you see ; n95 is FASTER as the iphone. cause it has the best 3d accelerator. if you would make a emulator especially for the power vr mbx, it will sure need less mhz. and i think if one dude can do this, than its ANOTHER GUEST Wink .

Both the N95 and iPhone use the same PowerVR MBX chipset for their graphics.

But the graphics isn't the issue here. The CPU is. To emulate the PS1 CPU power is needed, and not more 3D power.

While a PS1 emulator certainly is possible for N95 8GB (since it got more RAM), it will run too slow. There's no doubt about this. The CPU is too slow, and as Anotherguest earlier said, the Symbian graphics/audio access is very slow.

iPhone is faster than the N95, but the PS1 emulation available for PS1 is still not fast enough.

Until Nokia build a phone with the ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, the PS1 emulation won't be fullspeed or pleasant.
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ganxta
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 04.Jun.2008 09:11    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

but i had a p166 mmx 10 years ago. and i was able to play n64 games with it cause of the voodoo 3d card. i also played psx emu. without 3d card it runs [put your favorite swearword here]. but as i bought my voodoo card it runs really good. i know pc and mobile architectures are different. but with a overclocking mod you can push the arm cpu a bit higher.
there was also a ps1 emu for the tapwave zodiac pda. it runs just with 1 fps. but the programer TRIED it. and we never know if no one try it. if we just reach 12 or 14 fps. for many people it would be still better as any java [put your favorite swearword here] [put your favorite swearword here].
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 04.Jun.2008 16:08    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Kazutoyo wrote:
An old Pentium 133 can run Quake 2 in full speed, but try to run a PS1 emulator on it.

Yes, albeit in software mode. The N95 8GB GPU has enough guts to run it in hardware mode with FSAA. and just like ganxta said, he had an N64 emu running on his p166 with a Voodoo 3D card.


Quote:
Both the N95 and iPhone use the same PowerVR MBX chipset for their graphics.

But the graphics isn't the issue here. The CPU is. To emulate the PS1 CPU power is needed, and not more 3D power.

While a PS1 emulator certainly is possible for N95 8GB (since it got more RAM), it will run too slow. There's no doubt about this. The CPU is too slow, and as Anotherguest earlier said, the Symbian graphics/audio access is very slow.


You are so wrong. First of all, the iPhone's GPU is PowerVR MBX lite + VGP lite, while the N95 has the PowerVR MBX + VGP.
Now about the iPhone and N95 with regards to PSX emulation:
The iphone PSX emulator DOES NOT take full advantage (i don't think it uses the GPU at all) of the iPhone GPU because full access to its GPU is not possible at the moment, whereas the S60 smartphones featuring the PowerVR MBX already have full access to the GPU through the opengl ES 1.1 plugin Nokia has offered freely for download at forum.nokia.com. Furthermore, the SoC in N95 features a 220 MHz TI DSP core while the iPhone only has the ARM11. So you actually have two CPU's to help you emulate the system in the N95. And one last note, the iPhone PSX emulator is getting faster and faster with every new release, so it definitely has the potential to achieve full speed one day. The problem is, not enough dedicated homebrew developers know about the S60 platform and its SW/HW limitations, and none seem to be interested in developing OpenGL based applications for it such as emulators.

EDIT: Btw, GBA emulation has much better compatiblity and speed in S60 3rd edition than on iphone. And guess what, the GBA emulator for S60 phones - VbagX - doesn't even use the GPU for emulation (i know this since its made for non-gpu based phones as well), hey what happened?? iPhone CPU was faster wasn't it? Then shouldn't it at least emulate GBA better than N95. Not quite. Is CPU speed an issue for PSX/GBA emulation? no. GPU speed? no. It all comes down to CODE OPTIMIZATION. The VbagX for S60 is better optimized than the iPhone's gpSphone. Of course CPU speed and GPU speed are also important, in fact they might speed up the process quite a bit, but just because a given emulator runs slow on a given hardware, that doesn't mean it has ONLY to do with the hardware. Code optimization is just as important.
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