My-Symbian & My-Maemo / My-MeeGo

[aqualung]

While I'm fairly happy with my 5800XM as a device, I'm a little concerned that there isn't a lot happening in the online Symbian world for a while now.

The 5800 has been out since October last year, is a best selling device for Nokia, yet the app offering for S60v5 is really rather feeble. See also this thread.
A handful of Java games and a couple of buggy widgets don't really cut it for me.

The Ovi store is a flop, and Symbian's draconian and expensive app development policy is apparently turning developers away to other platforms (see comments here).
As I commented in the linked post, it seems many of the larger devleopers are focusing their attention on other (RIM, iPhone) platforms.

Is S60v5 a stopgap measure while the new Qt platform is developed ?

As a consumer, I find the Symbian ecosystem in terms of apps, support and discussion really uninspiring right now

Am I being too harsh ? Are their glory days over ?

[My-Symbian]

[ph]

i would generally agree, although one thing needs to be said - we have to ask ourselves how many more and what kind if apps we REALLY need for our phones. I am getting the feeling that my Omnia has everything i need. They only need to work on FW updates and that's it.

[Sera]

I must say that I've read some disappointing things about the Ovi store, not just from other indies but also from large legitimate developer groups of houses (such as this). It's really sad because (if my knowledge is up to date) it's nearly impossible - because of the high cost - for an indie developer to publish an app on the Ovi store. While this prevents all kind of cr*ppy "iFart" equivalents to be published in the Ovi store, I think potential hard-working, enthusiastic programmers are not taken well either.

Good thing we have My-Symbian to get our apps some attention

[kradcliffe]

Symbian signed has throttled independent development for some time but they just don't see it. Big business attracts big business and they don't care about the small fry. Sorry to go back to the iphone but how many unknown devs are now very rich thanks to that?
Look at how CPS have programmed for UIQ3 without going down the signed route, if they had access to all the API's in an unrestricted way the apps Zed could make would be stunning.
S60v5 is just a stopgap (i hope) to something better. I love the Omnia HD as I have been Symbian for years and years now, but someone new to smartphones may find the OS cumbersome compared to the iphone ..... saying that it's really just the N95 with a touchscreen in all reality and look how many of them sold!

[My-Symbian]

[aqualung]

ph wrote:

we have to ask ourselves how many more and what kind if apps we REALLY need for our phones

I haven't yet played with an Omnia so I can't comment on it's built in apps/

Certainly, and just off the top of my head, the following are lacking for Nokia S60 touch :

Decent task manager and file manager (aka Swiss Manager Pro)
Decent Notes app that allows one to 'scribble' and save notes in folders(like the UIQ3 Notes from G900)
Coreplayer optimised for S60v5
Decent ebook reader
Threaded SMS app
Decent Calendar

If it wasn't for OfficeSuite, I wouldn't be able to edit word docs and spreadsheets on my phone either, as Dataviz and Quickoffice seem to have abdicated responsibilty for producing this.

I have found working substitutes for some of the above (isilo, Handy Taskman, Best Jotter), but really, nearly a year has past since this platform was released and we are still waiting for a decent selection of apps for it !

Also, many of the above apps could leverage the accelerometer on these phones :

flip phone face over to flush tasks from memory
ditto to erase currently written scribble
ditto to mark page and close ebook reader
ditto to save the changes to an edited spreadsheet and overwrite the old file (clicking Save As, Overwrite, Yes etc is getting really stale)
etc etc etc

[ph]

Well, then it depends on needs then. From your list I need:

Decent task manager and file manager (aka Swiss Manager Pro) - I use Handy Task Man and X-Plore and it is enough for me, though brand new CPS product would be welcome
Decent Notes app that allows one to 'scribble' and save notes in folders(like the UIQ3 Notes from G900) - Omnia's Notes are enough for me
Coreplayer optimised for S60v5 - no need for me, JukeBox is good enough
Decent ebook reader - needed, though not critical to me
Threaded SMS app - no need
Decent Calendar - Handy Calendar is enough for me, they could only fix couple of things
Quickoffice - true, they should add the edit function.

So yes, there is stagnation, but it is not the case that without any further development my phone will be useless.

[krischik]

aqualung wrote:

The Ovi store is a flop

I stopped reading at Register now €50.

[aqualung]

Completely off-topic but posting it nonetheless....the crippling Symbian signed restrictions can't even keep signed Symbian malware at bay.

[wl]

there is excellent FB2-reader for s60v5 - ZXReader, from russian developer, btw

[benladene]

For aqualung : For Threaded SMS app, you can use Free-iSMS it works great on my 5800

[aqualung]

@ benladene and wl

Thanks for your suggestions

Kudos to the creators of these apps who are working against the odds to develop something useful for this platform. I hope their applications do well.

I rest my case - an evolved and stable ecosystem should not have to rely on unsigned and self-signed applications.

(At the risk of sounding snarky I'll say that I'm not prepared to fiddle with all the self signing stuff again - did enough of that for UIQ.
As a customer who always pays for the apps I use, I expect to be able to pay for, download and install an app without any further hassle.)

[kradcliffe]

aqualung wrote:

(At the risk of sounding snarky I'll say that I'm not prepared to fiddle with all the self signing stuff again - did enough of that for UIQ. As a customer who always pays for the apps I use, I expect to be able to pay for, download and install an app without any further hassle.)

Exactly the same as me.

[Michal Jerz]

Quote:

(At the risk of sounding snarky I'll say that I'm not prepared to fiddle with all the self signing stuff again - did enough of that for UIQ.

I don't have any major problems with signing.

And while I do not recommend (and don't do it myself) hacking the phone (mainly for security reasons: hacking the phone opens it totally and for everything as it enables all capabilities for all apps), I can actually recommend getting a certificate for your phone (e.g. from one of these Chinese websites) and use it to sign the unsigned software you want to install and use (of course, I mean LEGAL unsigned software, and not warez).

It's really NOT something I'd call difficult, time consuming or troublesome. Basically, all it takes is just one command:

signsis unsigned.sis signed.sis mycertyficate.cer mycertificate.key

.... and in just 1 second you have a fully signed app ready for installation. There's really nothing wrong or complicated with it....

Obtaining the certificate and signing software with it has a big advantage over hacking the phone: it is YOU who decides which applications to sign (i.e. provide with all capabilities allowing the app to use the network, read your private data, etc.) while hacking the phone opens it for EVERYTHING, including software that may get installed and run without your knowledge.

So in case of signing software with the certificate, you actually BENEFIT from Symbian Signed as your phone remains secure and rejects all unsigned apps (e.g. troyan horses which might e.g. be included with warez) while it is YOU who decides which software you trust and want to use and you CONSCIOUSLY sign such software and give it access to your phone....

[dmcgrath]

There's one small problem with what you suggest. Not everyone has a windows machine with which to sign apps. I know, it's a small proportion of users, but they do exist. I actually know quite a few mac toting symbian users, who won't touch anything windows related with a 10' pole. Shortsighted, yes. But from their perspective understandable.

I'm definitely with aqualung and kradcliffe on this. I'm a developer, and I enjoy paying for quality software for my phone. I do not enjoy hacking my phone, self signing, or any of that nonsense. I have no problem with someone releasing an app for free. But I'm not going to sign it. That's like the OSS people who give you source that no only requires compiling, but porting to your platform, all while claiming it works (think most OSS on platforms other than Linux).

I give it about 3 years. In 3 years, all we'll have in the mobile space is Windows Mobile and the iPhone. Android is pathetic from a dev standpoint, and so half baked and restrictive it makes symbian development fun. WebOS will likely be a niche player, at best.

The only way around this is to push out the Qt interface layer as quickly as possible. It's quite clear, as aqualung stated, that S60v5 is a "me too!", interim stage between the ancient and arcane S60 and modern SF. And who wants to write software that might be completely obsolete in 6 months time? And 6 months, with no goal to target, no clearly defined APIs...people will move on. Many already have. SF needs to push out at least preliminary API support and mockups of the interface style, or there won't be any devs left on the platform. I find this very sad.

But this is the reason I'm jumping ship as soon as the TP2 is released in my area. I loved UIQ, and there was useable, excellent software available for it. The interface was clean, intuitive, and just plain made sense. But while I can easily use the 5800, I find it even more of a chore than using a non-touch Windows Mobile phone. There's nothing even remotely fun about it. And while WinMo isn't ideal, with the TouchFlo interface, using the phone is fun again. It's consistent, it makes sense, and it no longer feels a chore. And, most importantly, there are devs releasing new software which I can pay for. Many of which is really quite good.

[aqualung]

@dmcgrath, thanks for the support.

I'm a mac-toting symbian user myself...it was a real chore to sit with the aging Windows box at work while it installed endless .Net dll's in preparation to install the latest hack for my P1i. More often than not just so I could get the usability on my device that the manufacturers didn't bother to supply it with in the first place.

UIQ was in many ways our 'special project' and I did it then, but I'm not doing it anymore.

In buying the 5800 I've (for the moment, this is a stopgap device while I wait for the Uberphone, whatever that might be) invested in what I thought was a mature and app-replete ecosystem.

As a paying customer, I'd like to be able to sit back and let the products for my phone come to me for a change.

To me, irrational or lazy as it may sound, any effort now beyond that of betatesting, giving feedback on or buying an app is just a compromise.