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N900 vs. Android

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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Saturday, 12.Feb.2011 00:55    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

This all becomes somewhat academic - next stop Windows Phone.

Not for me. I'll take a different bus.

Haven't decided yet what to do, and for now I'll stick with the N900 which still serves me well. But FOR SURE I will not buy a Nokia Windows phone, even just because I will not give my money to losers.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 12.Feb.2011 01:50    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Not for me. I'll take a different bus.

Haven't decided yet what to do, and for now I'll stick with the N900 which still serves me well. But FOR SURE I will not buy a Nokia Windows phone, even just because I will not give my money to losers.


Agreed - Windows Phone is not in my future. Not because I have anything against Microsoft but rather that I just don't like the mobile platform very much. Similar to how I feel about iOS and Android. There is just nothing there that entices me.

While on topic, I don't really know how successful Nokia will be by just making hardware. Their hardware is really not anything special and there are other hardware makers (Samsung, HTC, etc...) who probably have better options. I don't see anything that will make Nokia phones standout in the crowd. It was a different story 10 years ago when almost every phone was a Nokia phone.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 12.Feb.2011 02:10    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

The ONLY sort of redemption I can forsee for Nokia is , ironically, the very same means by which they have just been disembowelled, i.e. the markets.

It may just turn out that like Ceroberts75's lovely BSOD image, the stock not only keeps dropping to "junk" status and *remains there* due to a huge, sustained collapse in demand for ALL Nokia phones.
If that were to occur and remain the case for about 2 or 3 quarters consecutively, the calls for the Board to resign with the ELOP Trojan would be overwhelming and irresistable.
Just as with the imposed EU dictatorship, the way back is to use your "vote" to support those who WILL do what you want (or are closest to that) rather than 'collaborate and hope for the best.
I personally HATE the Google "hoover" - read Android OS - collating all my data and contacts and passing them onto the big 'G' so as to enable them to profile me better; one is just paying for the tool of his own surveillance.
Apple, with its Noddy UI and restrictions at least has to wait until your battery fails and get you to send the device back (if you can't attach a bigger battery shell to eke out a few more months)BUT there have only this week been reports of the ease with which a knowledgeable hacker can get at one's phone records, messages, etc. in as little as 6, yes SIX seconds!!
Blackberry best hurry up porting QNX to a side-sliding large-screened handset; the Playbook specs and OS/UI in a 4-5-inch screened qwerty slider would be completely fine. The ONLY spying I'd worry about in that case would come from the Govt itself...
WebOS would be my second choice (maybe even first if they could improve on their form-factors)
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Saturday, 12.Feb.2011 03:12    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

While on topic, I don't really know how successful Nokia will be by just making hardware. Their hardware is really not anything special and there are other hardware makers (Samsung, HTC, etc...) who probably have better options. I don't see anything that will make Nokia phones standout in the crowd.

I can't see a single feature that would make Nokia phones stand out compared to HTC. Cameras? As I wrote in other threads, for HTC it's just a matter of signing an agreement with some reputable company. Nokia has Zeiss and HTC can have Canon, or Olympus or whatever else. They didn't do it so far because they didn't need it. Now that Nokia is going to compete with them, I wouldn't be surpised if the very next HTC WP7 smartphone had a much better camera of some well known manufacturer.

So what else? Ovi Maps? Every smartphone now has maps and it really doesn't have to be Ovi. Most of them are based on the same Navteq maps, anyway.

Ovi store? Who needs it on WP7? It already has its Marketplace.

So what else?

They cannot even compete when it comes to prices of their products as the Asian based HTC can ALWAYS be cheaper than Finland-based Nokia, even if their entire production is in Asia.

Nokia's only REAL asset was Symbian, not the services on it as they all have their (usually not any worse) equivalents on other platforms. Maemo/MeeGo could have also been another asset, but they didn't even give it a chance. And the very same for Qt.

They killed everything they had REALLY UNIQUE and valuable (Symbian, Maemo, MeeGo, Qt) and only kept what actually has no real value as it can be easily offered by anyone else - Maps, store, camera experience, etc.

If they at least went Android, and even if they made it their primary platform but kept developing Symbian and MeeGo, I'd all make MUCH MORE SENSE. They could implement Dalvik VM on both MeeGo and Symbian and thus could have all three systems support Android apps. Then they could try to port Qt to Android, and again have all three systems support Qt apps. And that would be something - consistent and logical. And giving them time to refine Symbian and Meego (their only real assets) while making money on Android phones. If people could run tens of thousands of Android apps on Symbian ^3 and MeeGo, no one would be complaining if it took them a further year to fully polish Symbian ^4 and the MeeGo handset UX in the meantime. But at the end of 2011 or early 2012 they could come up with FULLY POLISHED Symbian ^4 and MeeGo on nicely refined Qt, i.e. KEEP all their assets and be able to STRIKE BACK with them, while still being considered a very important player by that time thanks to their Android phones.

With WP7 they've got NOTHING to offer, there is no way to make Symbian or MeeGo compatible with it so the only thing they can do with them is to dump them, i.e. waste the only assets they have.

This was the MOST STUPID DECISION in Nokia's entire history and, I'm afraid, a nail in their coffin.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 12.Feb.2011 22:46    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I 100% agree Michal.

Not that I really care about Nokia anymore. They've betrayed my trust too many times. After this decision, I can only believe they will become a shadow of what they were, living off patent income.

I did care about an open OS. Maemo, and maybe it's successor, Meego. I wonder what Intel's commitment to openess is with Meego. I feel the open OS experiment is now over, after a very, very short life with Maemo.

I can't think what I will replace my N900 with. Sign my life away to Andriod's constant snooping on my personal data? Use a dumb, closed iPhone? Windows 7? Blackberry? Nothing appeals to me, at all.

Confused
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 06:28    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Not that I really care about Nokia anymore.

Nor do I.

A perfect scenario for me would be that some company (not necessarily a huge one, even just a new small player) takes Symbian from Nokia (it is still open source) and finally gives it a proper UX and proper promotion and support.

And also, or maybe first of all, that someone further develops Maemo, even just the COMMUNITY. Maemo is so open and flexible that with some effort it can be made to work on phones from HTC or Samsung and this way it could stay alive for many years to come, on new, powerful hardware. It IS doable (not trivial, but doable) to port Maemo 5 to e.g. HTC Desire Z or Galaxy S...

Of course I also won't mind if Intel succeeds with MeeGo (preferably under his own brand).

So, please be patient guys. Many things can still happen. With just a little bit of luck it might turn out that.... Nokia actually ISN'T NEEDED for Symbian and Maemo/Meego to go on.

Let's not get fooled and too quickly discouraged. Especially by Microsoft-bribed journalists and "analysts" who some months ago were paid to keep repeating like a mantra that "Symbian is dead" and "Meego is laughable". It was part of the plan - they were paid to prepare the ground.

Quote:

I did care about an open OS.

I guess that Microsoft was very interested in killing open source systems. ESPECIALLY MeeGo than isn't just a smartphone system but also supports set-top boxes, tablets, netbooks, laptops, i.e. it is a direct competitor to Windows 7.

Let's hope that Intel won't give up.

At least on Monday I will have the WeTab with MeeGo onboard.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 16:34    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

To be honest, I hope Intel DOES succeed with Meego. And not just succeed, but that it's wildly successful, and takes the world by storm.

I HATE the American management model. I did not believe the doom-sayers when they predicted the consequences of Elop's appointment. Seems trash and burn and instant fixes to appease short-sighted stockholders is more important than a sustainable, long-term strategy.

How I would love Intel's Meego to be a success, and W7 to crash and burn, and Elop with it. Not Nokia, as I feel sorry for all the software employees who tried to do a good job. But I won't shed a tear for Nokia itself - it betrayed everything it once stood for, and the "Finnish" model.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 19:04    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

After analysing the situation, I am more and more convinced that Nokia was FORCED to do this because otherwise it was threatened with a HOSTILE TAKEOVER.

If you check the structure of Nokia's institutional investors, you will notice that most of them are quite strongly connected with Microsoft. And it was them who was used by Microsoft to take Nokia. They must have threatened that if Nokia does not accept CEO from Microsoft then they'll start trading their shares, etc.

Nokia's institutional investors are only in 10% Finns. 90% is non-Finns, mainly American, and in a huge degree connected with Microsoft.

It is NOT Nokia who wanted Microsoft. It is Microsoft who wanted Nokia. And they got it.

Why they wanted Nokia? For hardware, of course, but NOT ONLY.

They also WANTED to destroy MeeGo, which is a system not only for smartphones, but also for set-top boxes, netbooks, tablets, laptops, multimedia systems, etc. And as such, it is a direct competitor not just (and not mainly) to Microsoft's WP7, but first of all to desktop WINDOWS. And it is open source, i.e. something that Microsoft feels THREATENED with.

It was a COUP, guys.

Nokia's shares over years got in WRONG HANDS. Institutions closely connected with Microsoft took control over Nokia by buying their shares. And on Friday (or actually when they enforced Elop) they did what they were supposed to do.

Nothing to do with Nokia (i.e. the actual company) or Finns at it. Nothing to do with Nokia willing to drop Symbian or MeeGo. It's all about MICROSOFT willing to take over Nokia and destroy MeeGo and Symbian. If Nokia didn't accept Elop, things would probably look even worse as some massive tranding with shares would start and either ruin the company, or put it DIRECTLY in Microsoft's hands, anyway.

This is not the first time Microsoft did it this way, only with Nokia it took them MUCH LONGER than with so many other, smaller companies they took over in the past.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 19:28    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

P.S. Nokia shares 13% down.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 20:37    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Yorky wrote:
I can't think what I will replace my N900 with. Sign my life away to Andriod's constant snooping on my personal data?


Nobody forces you to use the Google apps. Just drag and drop then to the trashcan and download yourself a set of new App from a 3rd party Market.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 21:14    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Nobody forces you to use the Google apps.


Unless you want Google Maps, GMail, Voice Search, Web, GTalk - you know the actual apps that Android is known for. That plus the fact that even if you do not sign up for a Google account, your information is still at risk.

Quote:

...researchers from Duke University, Pennsylvania State University, and Intel Labs released the results of a study on 30 popular third-party Android apps. Using TaintDroid, a tool which the researchers created, they discovered that 20 of the studied applications exhibited “suspicious handling of sensitive data” and that 15 of the applications “reported users’ locations to remote advertising servers.”

In addition to location information, the researchers discovered instances of applications transmitting a device’s phone number, IMSI code (unique code that identifies a user of a GSM or UMTS network), ICC-ID (unique SIM card serial number), and IMEI number (unique identifier for an individual device). They found that one application transmitted information each time the phone booted.

“While this application displays a terms of use on first use, the terms of use does not specify collection of this highly sensitive data. Surprisingly, this application transmits the phone data immediately after install, before first use.”

Not only are applications transmitting information that could be used to personally identify an individual, they are also sending geographic location data. The researchers found that 50 percent of the studied applications “exposed location data to third-party advertisement servers without requiring implicit or explicit user consent.” And while two of these 15 did display a EULA when first run, neither EULA indicated that such data would be collected and sent to advertisers.


Source:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/itdojo/iphone-and-android-apps-raise- privacy-concerns/2107

I'm sorry if I sound somewhat old-fashioned and maybe most people don't care about this - but to me it's a big deal.

Quote:

download yourself a set of new App from a 3rd party Market.


Wow - I never spend a lot of time on an App-Store's site but after seeing this one and browsing a bit - I can safely say that very much like the iTunes store, 90% of the apps look pretty useless.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 21:34    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:
90% of the apps look pretty useless.


That is the price of an open system. A system where applications are not refused because Steve does not like then.

You must choose: A walled, tendered, weed-free and beautiful sculptured garden or an open wild meadow which naturally contains a lost of weed. You just can't have it both.

Bedsides, you might also want to have a look at the main android Market: https://market.android.com/
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PostPosted: Sunday, 13.Feb.2011 22:44    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

dannycamps wrote:
Wow - I never spend a lot of time on an App-Store's site but after seeing this one and browsing a bit - I can safely say that very much like the iTunes store, 90% of the apps look pretty useless.


You think that once Maemo/MeeGo became popular or gets a big market share, such useless apps won't exist?? they will exist and might reach -or even more than- that 90% figure -which I don't know how you calculated that %-.

AppStore/Market is a great place for developers to put out their great work and easy for users to get. Misuse will always be there, but that doesn't make it a bad thing.
and I'll repeat it again, MeeGo will have an app-store and it will contain lots of fart/[put your favorite swearword here] applications, so will that stop you from getting MeeGo??
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Monday, 14.Feb.2011 00:57    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

You think that once Maemo/MeeGo became popular or gets a big market share, such useless apps won't exist??

I don't think he said so. He only said what is a FACT: that on popular platforms an overwhelming majority of available apps is total cr*p. Which is actually quite an obvious and "understandable" thing, as it is normal that everyone wants to make money on such popular platforms, including those who don't have any good ideas for really usable applications.

And if it is a FACT, why do you have problems with stating it? He wasn't blaming Android for that, he only described what he has seen there.
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PostPosted: Monday, 14.Feb.2011 09:31    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:
And if it is a FACT, why do you have problems with stating it? He wasn't blaming Android for that, he only described what he has seen there.


Because he compared it with the iPhone app market saying things are better there. Which is not surprising as iPhone market is censored.

And AFAIK Ovi too is censored.

And so is the extras repository. Again AFAIK to get into extras you need to find someone to test your app and find it worthy. Find no one and you are stuck in extras-testing for ever.

Correct me if I am wrong.


Last edited by krischik on Monday, 14.Feb.2011 09:37; edited 1 time in total
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