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By the end of the year... they say

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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 01.Mar.2013 03:31    Post subject: By the end of the year... they say   Reply with quote   

"Good news from Finland" (sic!) quote Marc Dillon stating that the first Jolla smartphone will be launched by the end of the year...

http://www.goodnewsfinland.com/archive/news/jolla-plans-stock-market-l isting-and-phone-launch-at-the-end-of-the-year/

Hmmm... it's actually a very bad news from Finland.... Up to ten months from now is an awful lot of time... And.... I'm not sure what it means that the phone will be launched at that time in "Finnish and Chinese markets" only. Does the whole rest of Europe and the world have to wait until sometime in 2014? Apparently so...

"We will target Christmas sales in Finland, and New Year markets in China", Dillon says.

Only several hours ago I felt so excited after (so easily) porting one of my N9 applications to Sailfish OS, and now I got a feeling that doing so I am wasting my time that I should now spend on getting familiar with BB10, and probably also Tizen and Ubuntu Mobile. If all countries besides China and Finland have to wait for Sailfish OS phones until mid 2014 or so then I'm afraid that not much of that current excitement about Sailfish OS will remain until then... Not that I am impatient, but it is enough to take a look at this site (not so long ago teeming with life) to realize that Maemo and Harmattan are dead already now and by 2014 hardly anyone will want to wait rather than get an Android phone, or maybe a Tizen or BB10 one...
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PostPosted: Friday, 01.Mar.2013 10:06    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

You are right Michal, is too long time. I have a doubt, did Jolla release a first version of SailfishOS? or only an SDK for work with applications?
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 01.Mar.2013 10:50    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

So far only the Linux version of the SDK has been released. Which itself is a great thing as developers can have plenty of time to get familar with Sailfish OS UX, Silica and everything else. But it doesn't really take 10 months, as differences are quite minor and new things are easy to master within hours, of which my port of SunCalc done within a couple of hours is the best example.

Having to wait a further 10 months for the launch of actual phones (and that's apparently only in Finland and China, and probably a year or more everywhere else) is a truly frightening perspective. I know that it takes time to design a smartphone but the OS demoed on the N950 at MWC seemed to be fairly complete with not much left to be done, and hardware also isn't a huge problem these days.

The natural group of 'early adopters' for Jolla in Europe, Australia and some other countries (wherever the N9 was available) are current N9 users - most of them just can't wait to upgrade their aging phones. By addressing them first Jolla could quickly sell a million or more of their phones, and then also expand their marketshare more easily as those current N9 and N900 users would be promoting their new devices among their friends and relatives. Many current Symbian users might also be interested in Jolla phones as Jolla is often cosidered as "new, better Nokia".

But in a year or so from now, I'm afraid that not many N9 or Symbian users will remain. By then many of them will switch to Android (just like hundreds of millions already did) and surely won't come 'back' until at least their new contracts end... If it turns out that I really have to wait for a Sailfish OS phone until mid 2014 or so, I'm afraid that in the meantime I'll get myself Blackberry's Z10...
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PostPosted: Friday, 01.Mar.2013 15:58    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

It takes time to build a smartphone even when you can reuse a lot of code. Jolla embraced the open source efforts of mer and nemo which means that they leave maemo series behind. It would have been a lot better if they received the proprietary parts of harmattan 1,5 years ago and were allowed to use that until their new system was ready.

Linux smartphones have always been either bad or a dead end. Openmoko was promising for a while, but geeky, bad battery life or had other problems. From N900 to N9 took too long time. That it takes a long time between N9 and the next successor is not surprising. BB10 is not linux. QNX is a proprietary UNIX like microkernel and linux is a free and open source monolithic UNIX like kernel. The difference is not noticable for end users or app-developers, only for those creating the userspace utilities. I have never worked with a microkernel myself so I don't know how it impacts userspace.

While android use a patched linux kernel I think the userland makes it pretty bad. I would like it much more if they rather used uclibc or eglibc. It's popular, but a product does not have to be good in order to get popular. If android switch development framework to Qt I will like them much more, even if my architectural complaints stays the same.

I do not know how locked down the bb10 is, but I guess it will contain a lot less userland from the open source world which means that it's harder to port unsupported libraries. I really look forward to Z10, but I will most likely skip that and rather use N9 or N900 for a while. I could even use N9+N900 as toys or developer tools and switch to a bad feature phone I got free while I got my N9 repaired.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 01.Mar.2013 20:36    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

It takes time to build a smartphone even when you can reuse a lot of code.

Right. Even the (once) rich and powerful Nokia often needed 18 months to build a new smartphone... But you know, for Jolla being quicker than that is probably a question of succeeding or not... If you look at e.g. Twitter you'll notice that all these enthusiastic opinions about Sailfish OS come mainly from current Maemo, Harmattan and Symbian users and developers. The rest... don't really care - they're happy with their Android or iOS phones and that's where they want to stay. So I think it is very important for Jolla to release their first phones while those Maemo/Harmattan/Symbian users and developers are still there, and use them as a 'startup' allowing for quickly gaining some initial marketshare and attracting other users and developers. Without it, it will be much harder to enter the market.

Anyway, while I understand all the problems with getting to the market sooner than the end of 2013, I don't really understand why at this point make statements that the phones will only be available in Finland and China at that time. It surely doesn't help at all. Imagine e.g. an Australian N9 user hearing such an information now, in early 2013, that he won't be able to buy a Sailfish OS phone until maybe mid 2014... If he wasn't told such a thing, he'd probably wait until late 2013 hoping to upgrade from his N9 within the next 9-10 months, and then he'd probably wait a couple months more. But if he's told already now that it'll take more than a year, not many people will want to wait that long... He'll get himself some Galaxy S4 at the very next opportunity, and that's it.

So while I understand that Jolla has a good deal with major Chinese phone distributor and thus the Chinese market is very important for them, I think they should be more careful with dividing the world to "China and the rest". Majority of those REALLY interested in Sailfish OS are from outside China and it wouldn't be a good thing to discourage most of them.
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PostPosted: Friday, 01.Mar.2013 23:36    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

There are those that want either ubuntu, sailfish or firefox. I think that is the most important user base in addition to the Chinese market. I don't think we are too picky about ease of use. I feel ubuntu is not going to deliver a good product in a couple of years. The Chinese market provides money, and the free software community provides free high quality apps. Then it can gradually grow and reach more and more customers and more and more developers.

If they do the right design decision then they can provide an upgrade path for early customers in addition to releasing better and better products. If they do the wrong design decision it might hunt them down later. Some times speed is better, some times quality is better. If they have to choose a balance between them then I hope they make the right decision. I do not know what that is. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

The N9 was delayed half a year after intended release date. Why expect that Jolla is any better than Nokia. Maybe they tried to do too much too soon, and just realized that they have no chance finishing in 2. quartal. Better delaying than releasing prematurely.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 02.Mar.2013 00:49    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

'nuff whining...

Quote:
Marc Dillon talks to Mobile.se - Initial markets for the first Jolla device will be Finland, China and then penetration in the European Markets - but there will be open channels where anyone will be able to buy the devices as well.


http://youtu.be/4tQpt0DguEk
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PostPosted: Saturday, 02.Mar.2013 03:11    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

When BB10, Tizen, Firefox Os, Ubuntu and Sailfish were conceived the smartphone world had not yet consolidated into two main platforms. Now ios and Android controls 92% of the market leaving the rest to fight over the balance. Their combined share will probably increase as the industry continue to consolidate. There will be space for some small platforms but none of them will acquire more than single digit market share. Of these WP8 and BB10 will take the lion's share while the rest will be niche platforms.

This consolidation of smartphone platforms is not reversible as it is tied to apps, developer support, carrier support, enterprise support and user mindshare. It's like the computer world consolidating into PCs and Macs leaving Amiga, Commodore and the rest in the dust. The market cannot support too many systems.

Sailfish at end 2013/start 2014 in Finland/China is too little and too late. Finland is a tiny market. China is a very price sensitive market and users there are not leaders, they are followers. For price Jolla won't be able to match cheap but capable Androids. I can't see Jolla succeeding China before succeeding outside.

Jolla's ship has sailed. They have not only missed the boat but never even got to the port.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Saturday, 02.Mar.2013 05:05    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

fcvgvtgvr,

Welcome to the forum,

Very nice username - "fcvgvtgvr", and even nicer phone in your profile - "2110i" (1995 or so). I see that you treat this forum and its members very seriously.

Quote:

'nuff whining...

It's not whining, it's discussing. That's what discussion forums are for...

"'Open channels' where anyone will be able to buy a device" actually means same situation as with the N9 - a couple of officially supported markets, and private import or small phone shops everywhere else. It surely isn't something that can provide Sailfish OS any decent marketshare and make it a competitor to the popular platforms. With this approach, I'm afraid it will become yet another niche platform that will survive a year or two and then disappear.

SamKB,

Quote:

When BB10, Tizen, Firefox Os, Ubuntu and Sailfish were conceived the smartphone world had not yet consolidated into two main platforms. Now ios and Android controls 92% of the market leaving the rest to fight over the balance. Their combined share will probably increase as the industry continue to consolidate. There will be space for some small platforms but none of them will acquire more than single digit market share.

Oh, let's not be THAT pessimistic. And let's not forget that only several years ago the market was very strongly consolidated around Symbian OS, which in its best times had more than 60% of the market. And let's not forget that the current Android's marketshare MOSTLY consists of former Symbian users who switched to Android only after Nokia announced that Symbian would not be further developed. That's when Android maketshare DOUBLED within one year or so. And that's only because Symbian users didn't have anything else to choose, and not because Android is 'that good'. It was simply better for them than iOS, and there wasn't anything else.

So it's not the first, and surely not the last, consolidation. People like new things. Give them something really good, promote it properly, show them that you are strongly committed to further developing it and they will go for it.

But of course if you tell them that your product will only be officially marketed in two countries and people from everywhere else can buy it themselves if they like it, then I wouldn't expect any wonders... It takes entering the market with a BIG BANG to shake the foundations of iOS and Android. BIG BANG, and not a SMALL FART...
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 17.Apr.2013 17:20    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2013/04/16/jolla_to_unveil_f irst_smartphone_in_may_buyers_will_be_able_to_choose_design

I think this is really interesting. I wonder how much cost increases by this move, but it definitely differentiates from other phone manufacturers. I have backed a lot of kickstarter projects myself and I look forward to see their attempt with a Finnish kickstarter-equivalent. I think a lot of potential Jolla customer wants different things, and I think an alternative like this might be able to deliver a lot of different designs because they know better how many people want different designs before they produce their first batch.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 17.Apr.2013 22:23    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

This is the best news of 2013!

The idea to keep people waiting until Christmas 2013 or Jan 2014 was really insane. The sooner they start, the bigger chances they have.

I must say that I just can't wait for the Sailfish OS phone. As I wrote in other threads, the Z10 is a really great device but I guess that every N900/N9 owner very soon starts missing Maemo's/MeeGo's openness and flexibility. Also, porting existing Qt applications to Sailfish OS is a real PLEASURE, unlike on BB10 where Cascades require literally rewriting the whole UI from scratch.

I'm not sure what they mean by "different designs customers will be able to choose from" but if it means choosing between a device with decent hardware QWERTY keyboard and a keyboard-less one then it is going to be a really great offer.

I keep my fingers crossed.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Thursday, 18.Apr.2013 01:27    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

P.S. I guess it's the right time to port all my apps to Sailfish OS. Shouldn't take longer than a week or so. Unlike Blackberry, Jolla did their very best (with perfect results) to make Sailfish OS compatible with Qt components, QtMobility, etc., so it only takes changing A FEW elements to their Silica equivalents. And (at least judging by the screen resolution of Sailfish OS in the Simulator) as the screen resolution remains the same as in the N9, it does not even take resizing any graphics or UI elements...

That's how porting applications between Qt platforms should look like.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 18.Apr.2013 10:16    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Michal Jerz wrote:

I'm not sure what they mean by "different designs customers will be able to choose from" but if it means choosing between a device with decent hardware QWERTY keyboard and a keyboard-less one then it is going to be a really great offer.


Local language (Finnish) media seem to say (Jolla has not revealed any details) that this just means custom software configurations, rather than anything to do with the hardware.

That is, those making pre-orders have a chance to pay a bit more to get more customized software (UI, applications supposedly).

Doesn't seem like a process that will scale and still be economical/practical, so it is probably just part of an initial marketing campaign for limited early adopters where they still can spend the time & effort in manually configuring and building a firmware package for specific customers.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 18.Apr.2013 14:37    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I see... That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation, I've corrected the news on the home page accordingly.

Well, the most important thing is that the phone really comes that soon (rather than early next year). I also hope that they're able to quickly launch a decent app store and free us all from this Nokia nightmare that (as you can see in other threads) has recently stopped working completely.

I've emailed Marc Dillon and Jukka Eklund yesterday asking a couple of questions regarding the phone and getting in touch with them - let's see if I get any response...
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PostPosted: Thursday, 18.Apr.2013 18:13    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Even if the phone comes in the end of the year it is great to know the initial variant(s)/specification(s) early. I hope for at least two standard hardware configurations we can choose between even though there don't provide customized hardware. Those two configurations should include one with physical keyboard and one without.

My N9 doesn't charge reliably any more. It takes some time to adjust usb-connection in order to get a connection, and it usually disconnects immediately if the phone is moved even 1mm. I use my N900 until I decide what to replace it with. I hope it's going to be a Jolla/Sailfish phone.
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