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Would you buy the Jolla today?

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Would you buy the Jolla phone today?
  Yes. It fulfills all my needs
  Yes. I believe in this project and want to support it
  No. I like Sailfish OS but I'll wait for more powerful phone
  No. I like Sailfish OS but I'm disappointed with how it is being marketed
  No. I don't like Sailfish OS
  None of the above (please explain below)
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Michal Jerz
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Phone: Jolla, BB Z10, BB Passport, N950, N900, N8, Nexus 4 (Ubuntu Touch), Lumia 920

PostPosted: Thursday, 05.Jun.2014 22:52    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, we all actually KNEW that the hardware was on the low-end side, and that the OS was unfinished. The OS keeps gradually improving but the hardware obviously cannot be upgraded. So I don't really get why people complain about it - didn't they know what they were buying? All specifications were known. Except for RAM, all other specs are actually better than BlackBerry Z3's (only released weeks ago), so it isn't that bad. We simply have to acknowledge that it IS a low-end hardware, sold for a high-end price, that's all...

A wholly different story is Jolla's complete lack of support for native software development and also absolutely nothing being done in the The Other Half department - that's IMO the worst. Without good native software, for majority of end-users the platform is just a feature phone OS capable of (kind of) running SOME simple Android apps, and without advanced TOH accessories it loses its most unique hardware feature.

Anyway, from that table I've learned that people don't really know where "apps" come from. Most of them just say "More apps!" as if developers didn't want to make them, while the reality is completely different: people like me have ported all their apps to Jolla MANY MONTHS AGO but they still cannot be released due to Jolla not making it possible: no support for paid apps, still no support in Harbor for a lot of basic Qt modules even though they've all been stable now in Qt5.2 (e.g. QtPositioning), and so on. Many developers just can't wait to finally release their apps for Sailfish but they CAN'T DO IT due to no support from Jolla...

I've been using my own StarFinder, and all the remaining apps, on my own Jolla since December when I got the phone. All my apps are fully functional, there's absolutely nothing missing, except for the possibility to finally start selling them. SIX MONTHS now, and still absolutely nothing being done by Jolla to change it. I can only imagine how many developers were less patient than me and already gave up.
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Ketilk
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Phone: Sony Xperia XA(Android 7.0), Jolla, N9 , N900, N97-mini,

PostPosted: Tuesday, 10.Jun.2014 16:37    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

The more I think about it the less I want to buy the phone. Sure I think I wouldn't have regretted it if I bought it in December, but now I feel that Jolla don't take the important problems seriously and rather focus on an android stack I don't really need. One of the advantages of N900 and N9 is that I can compile my own kernel if I want (or download a community kernel). In order to support android applications, Jolla use a proprietary kernel module. Without the ability to recompile that module against a patched or reconfigured kernel I feel that is quite restrictive. I feel the future of the device (after end of life) lies with community updates and I fear that the android kernel module will have to be discontinued in an effort like that. That means that long term, the android compatibility layer either will break, or there will be no community updates. I suspect the latter. I feel it makes sense to make applications for SailfishOS only if I can reuse the code on other linux distributions later.

N900 has CSSU and other more experimental community efforts. N9 has inception, open mode, "support" 6 OSes to various degrees, nitdroid, harmattan, nemo, ubuntu, sailfishos, firefoxos.

What will SailfishOS get? Will it be possible to buy devices second hand in a few years? What do you do if it's bricked after end of life?

I feel SailfishOS fail to comply with the wishes of the niche market that included N900 and N9. They also failed to comply with the wishes of the mass market, N9 was a real success. And I can't say it looks like Jolla is getting anywhere.

I would know the OSmuch better if I had the phone though, rather than the limited testing with an unofficial port for the N9 that I can't update past 1.0.2.5.
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traxx
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 10.Jun.2014 17:32    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Before i decided to port my apps to BlackBerry i have consider to port to jolla first due to its full Qt support unlike Cascade with its own variant Qt.I even already set up the sdk in my computer.After doing some research,i guess would have better future with BlackBerry(possible another sinking ship) than jolla(A ship to be displayed on bottle only) Very Happy .

Quote:

I can only imagine how many developers were less patient than me and already gave up.


Patient is a virtue.......
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 11.Jun.2014 00:05    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

but now I feel that Jolla don't take the important problems seriously

Based on what's been happening since the launch of the phone I can say that they behave just like typical Linux geeks - they do what they do just for the PLEASURE of doing it. They don't really need a commercial success, they don't expect decent profits, they just want to master their project for their own satisfaction and admiration of a handful of fanatic users. As long as they have enough money to pay their bills - they're just fine, and they don't even seriously think about the future.

Let's face it:
- promotion / marketing: does not exist
- developer support: does not exist
- any sort of activity to increase market share and build strong native ecosystem: does not exist
- any activity to have some revenue stream to keep the business alive for the years to come: does not exist

A new system update has been released today, and it includes an updated app store client. Now guess what: instead of finally bringing the so much awaited support for paid apps they...... integrated (as a new category) the Android Yandex and Apptoide stores with it. Such a cheap way to "support" paid apps.... of course only the Android ones.

No matter how much one initially wanted to support this project, they've been really doing their "best" to discourage everyone, especially developers. It's been now FIFTEEN MONTHS since I ported my apps to Sailfish OS, and instead of finally making it possible for me to offer them they.... integrate Android app stores with their client. It's no longer just disappointing, it's just F*****G ANNOYING.

Quote:

After doing some research,i guess would have better future with BlackBerry

The choice is really simple. On BB10 you can make apps and sell them, while on the Jolla you can make apps but you CAN'T sell them. Heck, most of them you cannot even offer for free through their official Harbour store due to an endless list of UNSUPPORTED (and thus DISALLOWED) dependencies. It's been FOUR MONTHS (and three Sailfish updates) since e.g. QtPositioning got stable and fully supported in Qt5.2, yet for Jolla it still hasn't been important enough to enable it -- nor ANY OTHER module. The Harbour FAQ's last update was in March.

If I say that it's hopelessly pathetic then it'll be an euphemism.
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Casanunda
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Phone: n900, Jolla

PostPosted: Wednesday, 11.Jun.2014 09:51    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Just a small sidenote:
Yandex and Aptoid stores were available through Jolla store before this update.
It's only the category that seems to be new.

That doesn't change the point you are making, though.
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Michal Jerz
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Phone: Jolla, BB Z10, BB Passport, N950, N900, N8, Nexus 4 (Ubuntu Touch), Lumia 920

PostPosted: Wednesday, 11.Jun.2014 10:47    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Yes, I know that they were available (as downloadable clients). But now through that new Jolla store category they became kind of integrated. And promoting Android app stores surely isn't what all developers willing to support Sailfish OS have been waiting for since November 2013, still without ANY official information from Jolla about when (and if at all) support for paid apps will be offered.

The truth is that Jolla treats all those willing to make apps for Sailfish OS like sh*t - not even worth talking to and providing with any information after months of waiting.
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traxx
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Phone: Nokia N8, Blackberry Z10

PostPosted: Wednesday, 11.Jun.2014 16:06    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

The choice is really simple. On BB10 you can make apps and sell them, while on the Jolla you can make apps but you CAN'T sell them. Heck, most of them you cannot even offer for free through their official Harbour store due to an endless list of UNSUPPORTED (and thus DISALLOWED) dependencies. It's been FOUR MONTHS (and three Sailfish updates) since e.g. QtPositioning got stable and fully supported in Qt5.2, yet for Jolla it still hasn't been important enough to enable it -- nor ANY OTHER module. The Harbour FAQ's last update was in March.


Very Happy I didn't know jolla store don't support paid apps or the development is slow until in read this thread.The reason i finally choose BB10 is because BlackBerry is still way more popular than jolla and i can buy BlackBerry device easily here than getting sailfish device.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Thursday, 12.Jun.2014 01:50    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

I didn't know jolla store don't support paid apps or the development is slow

Not only the Jolla store doesn't support paid apps, but also it does not accept a lot of Qt modules, like e.g. QtPositioning. So even if you make a free app, they still won't accept it if you use any import not allowed on their (very short) "whitelist". Initially their excuse was that those modules weren't yet stable in Qt 5.2 and for that reason couldn't be supported in the store, but now it's been FOUR MONTHS since most of those Qt 5.2 modules went stable and Jolla still hasn't added ANY module to their whitelist. That's why in the Jolla store you can only find simple apps like calculators, currency converters, cinema/TV guides, train schedules, etc. - nothing else can be made without using the modules that Jolla still doesn't accept (and of course doesn't even bother to say when it will change).

The following is a list of QML imports currently allowed by Jolla:

https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/blob/master/a llowed_qmlimports.conf

Try to find as important things as Qt Positioning, Qt Location, Qt SystemInfo, Qt Bluetooth or anything else.... This is just ridiculous. Not only you can't sell any apps, but you can't even submit them for free to the Jolla store.
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traxx
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PostPosted: Thursday, 12.Jun.2014 17:03    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Not sure if I read it right but only three module is supported while the rest is Qt5 related. It seem all the module you mentioned is not the main Qt module. What about the main module like QtQuick, Qt Qml, Qt Gui.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 13.Jun.2014 02:15    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

You read it correctly. Only three external modules are allowed. And there are numerous other restrictions.
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marko_steln9
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Phone: N9

PostPosted: Monday, 23.Jun.2014 13:24    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I wouldn't buy Jolla today or recommend anyone to do it. Still using Nokia N9. If something happed to it I'd buy another one, if there is still some stock somewhere, otherwise probably a BB. Would buy a fictional N9 version two Smile with the same pretty screen, nice fonts, icons and gui, just perhaps a processor upgrade and a few updated apps, say a web browser.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 24.Jun.2014 06:12    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I wouldn't buy the Jolla today, either. I wanted to develop for it - I can't. I wanted to run on it good native applications made by others - I can't. When it comes to Android apps - on BB10 they run much better. If I want to just play with an open Linux mobile system - now I can do it with Ubuntu Touch, for free (which isn't considerably less complete than Sailfish, and development is quickly progressing as new images for the Nexus 4 come out every couple of days -- update only takes pressing one button). In its current form, I really don't know what the Jolla is for. So sorry to say it.

P.S. I've been trying really hard to understand and excuse what Jolla has been doing. I can understand that some things need time and a lot of work. But if as BASIC and important things as e.g. enhancing the list of Qt modules allowed in the Harbour (without which one cannot release in the Jolla store ANY advanced apps, no matter paid or free) hasn't been touched for nearly half a year while they waste time on e.g. tweaking the animation of Pulley menu or folder support in launcher, then the only valid explanation is that support for development of native Sailfish OS software is certainly the *LAST* thing they care about.

See yourself the list of currently supported QML imports:

https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/blob/master/a llowed_qmlimports.conf

and notice the date of last update above it - January 29th. This prevents ANY serious development for this platform and scares away all developers. About which Jolla doesn't give a s**t.
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