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When fanboy'ism ruins objectivity...

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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Saturday, 07.Jun.2014 18:15    Post subject: When fanboy'ism ruins objectivity...   Reply with quote   

I've just read quite possibly the funniest article I've seen in a long time - a JollaUsers's preview of the upcoming Tizen phone.

In order to amuse you right from its first words, the article starts with a statement that Tizen is.... Samsung's response to Jolla Very Happy As if the whole world was spinning around Sailfish OS and every other maker (especially as insignificant as Samsung) was merely trying to catch up Razz

Then we can read that "the Korean giant is readying up to release it … duh, late this year" - what a shame, it should be next week. And... "Samsung delayed the project for couple of years" - which obviously is so much worse than rushing with a release of an unfinished OS on inferior hardware, and then spending just about the same time on completing it, as we know it from... you know what.

Now about phone's hardware: "the Samsung Z, follows the legacy of Galaxy SIII but with few tweaks add-up. The Z sports a 720p 4.8 inches AMOLED display, powered by a turgid, quad core 2.3 GHz CPU, directly from Intel. Also, 2GBs of RAM, 8 MegaPixel rear-shooter along with a 2.1 MP front facing camera are some other features crammed into the Z. The phone itself looks ridiculously like its Galaxy counterparts especially with the rear faux leather cover." - an unaware person might think that the hardware is very powerful (10x or so better than Jolla's) but the wording selection ("legacy, with a few tweaks" - read: old cr*p with a make-up, "ridiculously like Galaxy" - read: "poor copy", "turgid CPU" - read: "completely unnecessary", oh and the leather obviously being faux) instantly tells you what it really is, i.e. something so much inferior than the unique Jolla, not based on any legacy, and with real (rather than faux) plastic cover and the fastest processor one might ever need (rather than "turgid") .

"Mayhem for you if you’re into it since Samsung is entering health section by generalizing heart-rate sensors across its devices. There is however, a finger print scanner just for your privacy … that is." - why have such idiotic sensors (as well as barometer, thermometer, humidity sensor etc.) if you can... NOT have them like on Jolla. Beware, they're EVIL!

"Tizen OS, with Meego pedigree, tries to deliver the excellence of the Nokia N9 but I’m afraid it ends up being DoA." - so much unlike Jolla which brought the Nokia N9 to wholly new dimensions and rapidly conquers the world, surpassing Android's marketshare just while I'm writing this.

"What makes Tizen’s success dubious is how obnoxiously it feels. MeeGo was born with a unique, forward-looking mantra that then was embodied by the award plowing N9. To that end, Tizen simply stinks." - initially you might have thought that the guy has only seen a couple of pictures of the Tizen phone and read the press release, but now you know that he not only used the unreleased device (if he knows how it feels) but he even SNIFFED it ("Tizen stinks").

"Surely, there are no sumptuous experiences of swipes. Android compatibility isn’t ready either. That’s a far cry from what Jolla pundits have done with Sailfish OS." - unlike Jolla's state-of-the-art Android compatibility that eclipses BB10.

"Tizen OS is a montage of couple of OS’s including WP." - read, again: "a poor clone".

"Don’t hope so high, there’s a physical home key, just unlike the button-less Jolla." - still way better than three physical buttons on Android and WP, about which the author hasn't complained so far.

"If you search every nook and cranny of Tizen OS, still, you’ll vote for Sailfish OS. That’s pretty much hell of an artwork from a startup to surpass the world’s largest phone-maker in terms of creativity." - oh, yeah.

"Apart from immature web-app based Tizen" - "web-app based"? Did he mean Tizen's kernel was written in HTML5? Razz Or maybe the system is on Samsung's servers and the device downloads it each time it is powered on?

"Samsung Z is slightly superior to Jolla if you take the internals into account." - that's right, just SLIGHTLY superior. Only twice more RAM, just quad-core 2.3 GHz CPU vs. dual-core 1.4 GHz (i.e. just the insignificant ~four to five times faster), that unimportant HD 720p AMOLED display, a few more sensors here and there, quite possibly a *functional* LTE - and all that quite possibly at equally unimportant twice lower price than the surely not heavily overpriced Jolla which gives you the magnificent The Other Half technology... on paper.

"And from that perspective, should Jolla gear up faster to unearth the next flagship?" - certainly so. It is such a good idea to release yet another model while the OS is still far from being finished. And if its hardware is better than the current one then it will cost 500 EUR.

===========

Now seriously, after reading such a thrilling amount of cr*p packed into one short article (written by the website owner) I doubt I will ever treat seriously anything posted on that site. I can only imagine how the guy will bash Ubuntu when they get closer to launch. This is fanboy'ism in its purest form. Or maybe was that a sponsored article, as someone at Jolla has finally noticed that the competitors get ready for launch and soon may start taking their shares in the - even without it - microscopic Sailfish user base.

Anyway, I can only ask once again so that users help to keep websites like ours alive. Even just for OBJECTIVITY. Poor you will be if you end up with only websites like that one.


Last edited by Michal Jerz on Sunday, 08.Jun.2014 00:17; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Saturday, 07.Jun.2014 19:23    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

The best thing would be if Tizen, SailfishOS and Ubuntu were all successful. They have all different area of focus so if they could cooperate on some of the low-level core then it would be awesome.

I would really like a scratchbox-like environment though. I am not familiar with how ubuntu does things, but Mer/SailfishOS(sb2), harmattan(scratchbox), maemo5(scratchbox) all had one.

SailfishOS has been given time, and I have seen no indication for why it will be better than any of the others when the others get a release too. I think we should appreciate the good things about all and criticize the bad things about them. That way we can help them all to grow.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 07.Jun.2014 21:23    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Absolutely right, a ridiculous post. He even suggests he has handeld the phone commenting on how Tizen feels, wich is certainly not in good faith. I fully agree with your comments!
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PostPosted: Saturday, 07.Jun.2014 23:25    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

The most surprising thing is why attack Tizen this way. I mean, why Tizen. If it was just a fanboy's way of saying "Jolla is better than anything else" we would be seeing similar articles about e.g. Nokia Lumias, telling us how wrong Nokia was when firing those MeeGo guys and going WP. But no. Which somehow makes me think that it may have been somehow 'influenced' by Jolla itself, for who Tizen (and soon Ubuntu) are direct competitors, and a threat surely bigger than Android, iOS or WP, because Ubuntu and Tizen (unlike others) are aimed at similar user group as Sailfish.

And Tizen probably less than Ubuntu, as Tizen probably won't be entirely open, it doesn't ship with Qt preinstalled, and it isn't meant to be every Linux geek's best toy. So we can only imagine what kind of articles we'll soon see when Ubuntu Phone launches and turns out to be a FULL Sailfish OS equivalent - open, unlocked, Qt-based, with full root access, etc.

Which is really sad. There's nothing wrong with fan sites which try to convince everyone that their favourite system is the best there exists. But if such a website has never criticized Windows Phone, or BlackBerry 10, or iOS and out of a sudden it so aggressively condemns Tizen before it even started shipping then there must be something more to it.

P.S. For now I'm not a huge fan of Tizen, either. I was severely disappointed that Qt wasn't included by default and it remains unknown if software made in Qt will be officially supported, e.g. in the Tizen app store. And I also did expect the platform to be more like MeeGo was than Bada. But that's it. Other than that, I want to see how it launches and further develops and maybe in the future competes with Android. Why not? And bashing the platform for that the phone's cover is "faux leather", or that its powerful CPU is "turgid", or saying that the very powerful hardware it launches on is "slightly superior" to Jolla, or that it is a "immature web-app based OS" whose "Android compatibility isn't ready either" (as if Jolla's was) or simply that "Tizen STINKS" takes out any credibility from that site. Fortunately, visitors' comments posted under that article show that visitors of that site are more intelligent than its owners and don't buy such rubbish.

Let's see what they soon say about Ubuntu.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 08.Jun.2014 14:45    Post subject: Kudos for Jolla   Reply with quote   

I think Tizen is probably only there in the interest of Samsung..... they probably don't want to get more dependent on Google as the things they make get smarter, be it watches or televisions or washingmachines or whatever. This sort of limits the expectations you can have about openness and so on.

It remains to be seen if any new OS for phones will be able to make it but it is certainly a big achievement that Jolla as a very small company has been able to bring a new phone OS to market first. Despite any valid criticism one can have on their product and their strategy.

Given the apparent difficulties Jolla has and the limited results of MS and BB it will be interesting to see if others without big company budgets will be able to succeed.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 08.Jun.2014 18:03    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

It remains to be seen if any new OS for phones will be able to make it but it is certainly a big achievement that Jolla as a very small company has been able to bring a new phone OS to market first. Despite any valid criticism one can have on their product and their strategy.

Sure. It's just that with VERY LITTLE additional effort things could have looked much better. Their efforts to bring the platform to the market and to further develop and improve the system are admirable, but at the same time they don't do absolutely ANYTHING to promote the platform (which is now mostly forgotten by the public), to attract any developers, and in general to help the platform grow.

After six months there is still no PR of *any* kind: no advertising (not even cheap Google AdWords ads on websites just to keep the public aware that such a thing as Jolla exists), no press relations of any kind (not even simple press releases via email), still no developer program of any kind (even though they now have the devices), and so on.

So I wouldn't call it "apparent difficulties", it's just that they completely ignore doing ANYTHING at all about promotion and support. And it has nothing to do with their size and budget because if there was even just a SINGLE person to send out frequent press releases and stay in touch with press and bloggers and another SINGLE person to handle developer relations things would look very much different.

Yes, it was them who brought the device to the market first. But who still remembers that, except for those few enthusiasts who bought it? No one. As I said, ask any randomly selected smartphone user (or even developer) what "Jolla" or "Sailfish" is - no one knows. Which shows that the advantage of being the first has mostly been LOST by then not doing absolutely anything even just to sustain people's awareness of the brand's and platform's existence.

And when Tizen and Ubuntu come out and their makers start properly promoting and supporting their platforms, the situation of Jolla will only get worse, MUCH worse - it'll get totally ECLIPSED by them.

And what chances do they have now to earn money? After releasing their first phone at such a high price, even if they release a new one soon, who will buy it? Even those few Jolla enthusiasts, after spending 399 EUR only a few months ago, surely aren't ready yet to dump the current model and buy a new one, probably for an equally high price. And other people don't even remember that such a thing as Jolla exists, and even if they know they don't really want to buy a phone that doesn't have any native ecosystem, any native software, etc.

So this tough situation is mostly caused by Jolla itself - losing the advantage of being the first and letting the public forget about them, not doing literally ANYTHING to have any sort of native ecosystem, not caring to have any press coverage over the past six months, etc. I am not aware of ANY other commercial product of ANY kind (including earsticks and toothpickers) which wouldn't be getting ANY sort of promotion and support. Jolla is the only one.

And now they think that just bashing Tizen or Ubuntu will help them keep their existing user base, while they still not do anything to properly promote and support their own platform. This is just.... amazing.
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PostPosted: Monday, 09.Jun.2014 00:30    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

And what chances do they have now to earn money? After releasing their first phone at such a high price, even if they release a new one soon, who will buy it? Even those few Jolla enthusiasts, after spending 399 EUR only a few months ago, surely aren't ready yet to dump the current model and buy a new one, probably for an equally high price. And other people don't even remember that such a thing as Jolla exists, and even if they know they don't really want to buy a phone that doesn't have any native ecosystem, any native software, etc.


Who are the investors of Jolla, I guess it is Nokia who helped them with the initial finances? I'm not really sure they need to be profitable as the company is really what their name suggests. Jolla is a very small sailing boat which suggests the company is just a life boat from the large company. After 2015 Nokia can again make cell phones and they have a few billions from Microsoft waiting for investment.

My guess is that Nokia will buy Jolla after 2015. Before that without any backing of a giant, nothing much will happen.

Meanwhile, Ubuntu does the very thing we were waiting for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzc0uMXGFBY
Why can't any other company do this?
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PostPosted: Monday, 09.Jun.2014 11:36    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

My guess is that Nokia will buy Jolla after 2015.


Extremely unlikely, don't hold your breath Wink Bordering certainty that this will not happen. Companies just don't abandon a complete devision, selling it lock stock and barrel, just to start over again a couple of years later. Think of the investment that would require Shocked

Quote:

Ubuntu does the very thing we were waiting for.


Don't know about you, but I am not waiting for a phone that needs a docking station to open an attachment. This phone is only interesting if you are completely in the open source world with the skills to match. Being able to open an attachment is hardly a USP these days.

If I would want tight integration with a desktop I would say WP is my best bet.
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PostPosted: Monday, 09.Jun.2014 18:05    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

they have a few billions from Microsoft waiting for investment.

We don't really know how much they really got physically from Microsoft. Firstly, they 'borrowed' around $1.5b from Microsoft even before the transaction took place to buy NSN shares from Siemens, so that $1.5b was then deducted from what Microsoft paid. Then, there was a debt that Nokia owed to Microsoft for unpaid royalties (Windows Phone licence fees) which by the end of 2013 probably reached around $2b or so. So if the price Microsoft "paid" for Nokia Devices & Services was 3.79b Euros, it turns out that in reality they physically paid..... almost NOTHING because they deducted from it everything that Nokia owed them. That's how clever Elop was.

Right, there was also a payment of 1.65b for Nokia's patents - and that's probably all Nokia really got. The question is what are their current running costs vs. profits, and whether they can keep that money for future investments or maybe they need to use them for their current needs.

It was a masterpiece of Elop to become a CEO of a company which at the time he came to it had tens of billions of Euros in cash and nearly 40% marketshare (with ~ 120 million phones sold in just Q3 2010) and in just 2 years turn it into a bankrupt with no money, no marketshare and a debt to Microsoft which then bought it 5x cheaper than Skype.
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PostPosted: Monday, 09.Jun.2014 19:13    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

all over again?
the biggest (mobile) phone manufacturer getting into a "different" (more or less) self-developed OS.
sounds familiar?
wasn't this what NOKIA started nearly 10 years ago with Maemo?

what's different, here, though is that Symbian was a "community" project (community of mobile phone manufacturer in that case, but community none-the-less) and was free of "sgam" and other unneeded features.
Samsung depends on Android as its daily bread winner but has little or no influence on its development.
considering the recent development of Android as an energy pig, there is plenty (more) reasons to look for an alternative.

hardware design? consumers like Samsung devices, thus don't change a winning horse, right?
as long as they leave the GSM MoDem alone rather then killing the whole "mobile" aspect of the platform as NOKIA did 9 yrs ago with the 770, that's the best bet they can make.
remains to be seen in how far the Intel CPU will behave itself power wise...
btw., my 1st Gen (mobile) i7 CPU runs (pre-turbo) at 2.3 GHz w/ 4 cores too... overkill?
if Samsung ever offers a "Samsung Y" w/ QWERTY keyboard, i'm in.

guess Samsung has learned the lesson(s) from the Maemo fiasco better then the people who played it out last time, didn't they?
then again, Maemo was clipped back (no GSM) in order not to compete with the 77x0 & all from NOKIA... what a shame.
could Maemo be ruling the mobile world today if it hadn't been for this political narrow-minded bigotism?
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PostPosted: Monday, 09.Jun.2014 20:25    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Michal Jerz wrote:
[...]It was a masterpiece of Elop to become a CEO of a company which at the time he came to it had tens of billions of Euros in cash and nearly 40% marketshare (with ~ 120 million phones sold in just Q3 2010) and in just 2 years turn it into a bankrupt with no money, no marketshare and a debt to Microsoft which then bought it 5x cheaper than Skype.


It's a masterpiece indeed, something that you could write several books about. It's also very illegal to do this but it was not caught in any instance at all. BOD quiet, shareholders scattered and quiet. Finnish regulators quiet, EU regulators quiet. It's just something really odd about this story, like the road was paved before hand. In France they put the road on fire for less.
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PostPosted: Monday, 09.Jun.2014 20:37    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

in France they guillotined most of the royal family... except the Bolsheviks, hardly anyone did that kind of stuff in recent history...
this being sa(i)d, two things...
- Flop has a career as a bankrupter - most companies he became top manager of went bankrupt shortly afterwards or were "bought up" (cheaply). that's what he does, m$ just used it to their advantage.
- (officially) NOKIA got killed by Android, not that @$$O of Flop. end of story.
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 10.Jun.2014 00:16    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

misterc wrote:
as long as they leave the GSM MoDem alone rather then killing the whole "mobile" aspect of the platform as NOKIA did 9 yrs ago with the 770

The 770 (and then the N800 and N810) came without GSM radio mostly because.... there was no GSM stack for Linux yet at that time (2005). So the choice was to either wait until it's ready, or release a device without it and let some geeks at least evaluate the platform itself and build some sort of community around it. Which IMO was a good decision. For the very same reasons Linux-based platforms of other manufacturers (e.g. Intel's Moblin) also lacked GSM at that time.

Work on creating a core support for GSM (voice communication and mobile broadband data) for Linux really started only about two years later, and Nokia owned (and still owns) several patents in this area, which many other manufacturers license from them. I don't know it for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if also Android's GSM stack was licensed from Nokia.

It was only the N900 (the first Maemo device with a GSM radio, for which only at that time the support for Linux was ready) that some people at Nokia didn't want to go out with GSM in order not to compete with Symbian. There were two contradicting groups at Nokia - one blindly believing in Symbian, ruling out everything else and trying to marginalize Maemo as much as possible, and the other one willing to replace Symbian with Linux in a long term. Eventually, the latter group won the battle and the N900 came with a GSM modem, the N950 and N9 followed it and shortly before Elop ruined everything Nokia officially decided to gradually shift from Symbian to Maemo / MeeGo. Elop was afraid of Maemo/MeeGo even more than of Symbian, and that's why one of the first things he did was breaking the cooperation with Intel and instantly killing the N9 before it even came out commercially, by announcing that it would be the only MeeGo-based phone and the platform would be discontinued. It was a miracle that after such a statement (and zero promotion) still well over 2 million units were sold. We can only imagine how popular the N9 (and its successors) would have been if it came out in normal circumstances and was normally promoted, supported and further developed... Oh, and Elop cancelled the production of N9 after mere 8 months - much earlier than any other phone in Nokia's history, even the highly UNsuccessful N97 was manufactured much longer than that. If he didn't cancel production, Nokia might have as well sold a further 2 million units. Same with Symbian, it took stopping production of all Symbian phones (including the 808 PV) in early 2013 that finally made people stop buying them - otherwise people would be purchasing them by now. To Elop's huge surprise.

That's how it really was...

Things might have looked completely different with Maemo if:

a) there wasn't that influential group of people at Nokia who were doing their best to marginalize Maemo and keep it as a small, unimportant, purely R&D project - it was them who delayed the creation of GSM stack by at least a few years, and it was them who almost succeeded in removing GSM radio from the N900 and making it a plain tablet like its predecessors. Fortunately, they failed at least with that one thing.

b) the N900 was treated, promoted and supported seriously. It's ridiculous how Nokia was OFFICIALLY SURPRISED that they sold well over 1 million N900's, yet they still didn't do anything to properly support or promote it - to the point that they didn't even bother to officially release MMS support for it (let alone proper voice guided navigation and many other things) and it had to be done by the community. This time the group of Maemo HATERS at Nokia succeeded in blocking it.

c) they treated the MeeGo partnership with Intel seriously. Based on that partnership, Intel did everything it was supposed to: MeeGo for tablets and notebooks, IVI, etc. Nokia DID NOTHING. The N9 / N950 was still a Maemo device with just an updated kernel and a refreshed UI, just CALLED "MeeGo", probably to meet the legal requirements of their agreement with Intel where they promised to release a "MeeGo device". Nokia did not really do ANYTHING about the MeeGo Phone UX they were supposed to support and develop.

d) and then Elop came and - as mentioned above - instantly broke the MeeGo partnership with Intel and gave the N9 a deadly shot.


And the very same actually applies to how Nokia itself destroyed Symbian. It all started already in around 2003 when Nokia dumped the Hildon project (with numerous Hildon-based devices like the Nokia MX or CX almost ready for launch) and focused entirely on the primitive Series 60. It was right then when they lost the smartphone battle - by dumping an advanced platform with NATIVE, powerful touch UI support and instead choosing a pathetically primitive UX originally meant to only support tiny screens without touch control (phone keypad only), and then spending almost FIVE YEARS on creating touch UI for it from scratch (with pathetic results - the infamous S60 5th Edition). And they had a second chance in the meantime, as they could have switched to the great UIQ platform (a Symbian platform developed by Sony Ericsson and its UIQ Technology subsidiary) which also had an advanced native touch support, but instead they decided to force SE to kill UIQ and switch to Nokia's pathetic S60 (which they had the power to do as at that time Nokia already owned most of Symbian and controlled its core parts).

So the whole history of Nokia is a long series of DEADLY WRONG decisions - killing or marginalizing powerful platforms (Hildon, UIQ, Maemo) in favour of the most primitive one they had - Series 60 then renamed to just "Symbian". No wonder they ended up just like they did.

Oh, and when after almost SEVEN YEARS of struggling to make S60 look good and provide (sort of) intuitive touch control (that they might have had already in 2003-2004 if they didn't dump Hildon) they finally managed to create Symbian^3 (that turned out to be really successful judging by that the first phone based on it - the N8 - was sold in well over 4 million units in less than one quarter and the next one - the E7 - was selling equally well) it was already the time when Elop was in control, so he instantly took care about it and made the whole world know that Symbian was "obsolete, primitive, uncompetitive, fragile, futureless" etc. which killed Symbian in an instant.

At that time, Android's marketshare wasn't any bigger than Symbian's. It was only on the day when Elop murdered Symbian that Android's marketshare started rapidly rising - and that ONLY thanks to Symbian users massively switching to Android AFTER Elop told them that Symbian is no more.

Therefore, Elop is THE FATHER of Android's success. His (and Ballmer's) only mistake was that they believed that Symbian users would all stay loyal to Nokia and switch to their Windows Phones, while 90% of them showed Elop their middle finger and instantly ESCAPED to Android.

End of story.

To recap, Nokia was the MOST BIZARRE company I've ever seen. On one hand, they created a MULTITUDE of the most advanced mobile platforms and solutions, while on the other hand they consciously and intentionally DESTROYED all those which could have been highly successful and they blindly sticked to the worst and most primitive one, which - when after many years of hard (and completely unnecessary, considering that they could have had all of it much earlier on the platforms they destroyed) work they eventually brought to a state that might have been successful too - they also instantly destroyed.

So they simply got what they deserved - a few pennies from Microsoft (many times less than what M$ paid for Skype), like a stinky beggar on a street.

So it's not just Elop to blame. He was just a Trojan horse SENT to Nokia, and he did what his boss Ballmer ordered him to do. It is those to blame who over the past 15 years made all those TERRIBLE MISTAKES, and who eventually let Elop in (or maybe even invited him), surely not without any personal benefits. Eternal shame on them.
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 10.Jun.2014 00:45    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

thanks for the clarifications.
would however like to point out a couple of "lived" experiences...
- Hildon (still used on the N900?) was the 77x0's UI, wasn't it? well, at the time of the 770, due to the lack of GSM i finally choose a 7710... i'd say dropping the UI was the best thing NOKIA could have done w/ it Mad Evil or Very Mad (just my 2 cents worth of experience w/ the 7710 - the only NOKIA i ever owned (7110, 7650, 7710, 1110 to have a WORKING phone Mad Mad , N95, N900, N8 (replacement for a broken N900), N9 and finally 808) i sincerely hatted Sad )
N900 is still my primary, btw.
- yeah, wireless always was a struggle w/ Linux... remember 2003 connecting to a residential WAN w/ RedHat 8 / 9 - what a nightmare Help - when it worked Evil or Very Mad Mad
why didn't NOKIA put a little more energy into the fono stack back in 2004 - they were able to get the WAN to work, no?
right, internal politics :.(
anyway, thanks for the complete story...

EDIT: like a previous poster already pointed out, b4 the @$$O Flop hara-kiried Symbian, it was still the most selling smartphone platform. period.
question would be: why did he get hired in the 1st place, w/ his abominable CV?!?
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 10.Jun.2014 01:49    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, I am not saying that the Hildon UI (as in 7700 / 7710 and then - slightly modified - in the 770) was beautiful and perfect. It surely wasn't (but on the other hand, I'm not sure if any other touch UI in as early as 2003-2005 was any better). What I meant was that it had a native touch support (not just for stylus but also for finger), as well as support for high screen resolutions already in 2003. So while it surely needed improvements, it would have been INCOMPARABLY EASIER (and thus cheaper and faster) to just tweak/redesign for better user experience a platform which natively supported touch control and big screens, rather than dumping it and reverting to a platform which was never meant to support touch control (designed for 176x208 screen resolution with a simple phone keypad and joystick only) and then REDO the whole platform from top to bottom to implement touch control from scratch in it and make it support large screens and wide aspect ratios. I guess it's self-evident.

Nokia spent FIVE YEARS on trying to implement touch support on Series 60. The first Series 60 5th Edition devices (like e.g. the 5800 XpressMusic) came out only in..... LATE 2008 and even then the UI was so pathetic that everyone wanted to have the iPhone. I was on a S60 event in Madrid in early 2006 and already at that time Nokia worked hard on touch UI for S60 and was promising a release within months.... and it took them a further TWO AND A HALF YEARS to show something as pathetic as the 5800 XM whose unintuitive UI everyone just hated when trying (and failing) to learn what in that UI takes one tap and what needs a double-tap.

If they used Series 90 (or UIQ) rather than Series 60 and just put some effort into tweaking its look and feel (rather than spending years on creating touch support from zero), I'm more than sure that they would have come up with an incomparably better UI several years sooner than with S60. Which most probably would have changed the whole history about iPhones and Androids.

Quote:

question would be: why did he get hired in the 1st place, w/ his abominable CV?!?

The answer is probably quite simple: some people took a few million bucks and a promise of a good position at M$ after the acquisition. Tough to resist Wink
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