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Meltemi, what happened....

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PostPosted: Thursday, 27.Nov.2014 00:07    Post subject: Meltemi, what happened....   Reply with quote   

My Nokia Blog post on what happened with Meltemi, anonymous, but none the less worth reading.

http://mynokiablog.com/2014/11/25/mythbusting-nokias-meltemi-part-1-n9 -elop-android-safest-best/
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PostPosted: Thursday, 27.Nov.2014 02:39    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

" If you mean what was Elop’s reaction to Meltemi, he was excited about it."

And what else did he (apparently an ordinary Nokia employee) expect? That Elop was walking all around the Nokia HQ and to every ordinary employee he met he was saying that he doesn't give a **** about Meltemi as his true goal is to let Microsoft quickly and cheaply buy Nokia? Come on. Of course he was excited. Just like even in late December 2010 he was still excited about Symbian (check what he was saying about the N8's giant sales in Q4 2010) and MeeGo, only to disclose his true goals merely a month later "when the time had come".

"You have to understand that Meltemi had a clear place in Elop’s post-Feb 11th strategy."

Yeah, we all can see what that place was - the results are known. Apparently it was the same place as the Android-based X platform they eventually released instead of Meltemi for cheap low-end smartphones, and which Microsoft killed INSTANTLY after the acquisition. And they released that X platform probably only because Nokia's financial situation at some point got so bad that it might not survive until Microsoft could buy it. People were not buying enough Lumias (and they were sold below production cost), there was no way back to Symbian or MeeGo, so they had to release something else, temporarily, just to stay alive.

Those people were allowed to keep developing their toys only so that Microsoft could (a) copyright and NDA their WHOLE work so that they could not continue it somewhere else, and b) let them do more and thus simply acquire more which then might be useful for Microsoft in some future projects, and c) keep those people self-entertained as Elop couldn't fire everyone at once and those people just had to do something in the meantime, or else they might have started revolting or God knows what else, and d) PRETEND that Elop is a true Nokia CEO and wants to develop something in-house rather than that he's just heading straight for acquisition by Microsoft. Nothing else.

Elop did everything he could to kill everything that might compete with Windows Phone. Saying that he was excited about Meltemi is really amusing. How could he be "excited about Meltemi" (a simplified / cut down fork of Harmattan) but not Harmattan itself that he called in his memo just the same as Symbian - oudated, incompetitive, fragile, futureless etc, and he killed it before the N9 even came out, and when the N9 turned out to be a huge success anyway, he instantly canceled its production. What a bullsh*t!

And all that insanely naive cr*p about Nokia deperately looking for a low-end smartphone to fill the gap between Ashas and Lumias.... The N9's hardware (1 GHz single-core CPU, 1 GB RAM) on which Harmattan worked smooth as butter could have been easily downgraded (worse camera, no NFC, cheaper display without Gorilla glass and cheaper casing, worse radio e.g. 3G only, less storage memory e.g. 8 GB instead of 16/64 GB, smaller removable battery, cheaper worse quality microphone and loudspeaker, less sensors e.g. no compass, and so on, and it might give 70% CHEAPER phone running Harmattan (possibly plus Alien Dalvik, which was ready for the N9 at that time, if they wanted to have Android compatibility), without any investments in any new platform needed at all. That Elop so RAPIDLY murdered the great selling (2+ million units in 8 months) N9 rather than released a cheaper low-end model (allegedly so badly needed) based on Harmattan (if Meltemi wasn't ready) says it all about his true goals. Just compare the hardware of Nokia X Android phones to the N9 and you'll know that Harmattan would have worked perfectly fine on such hardware -- if only Elop's true intentions weren't to kill it.

" app compatibility was missing so Nokia needed to lure developers to make QML apps for MeeGo/Symbian/Meltemi"

Porting an application between MeeGo and Symbian was taking not more than changing a few lines in the QML code (a couple of minor differences in Qt Components between MeeGo and Symbian's com.nokia.xxx.extras, which would get unified if the platforms were further developed), and then just recompiling/rebuilding the package - 10 minutes of work. Every developer would do it (and in fact was doing it) without any kind of Nokia's "LURE", simply in order to sell more copies on two (or three) platforms and not just one. I had all my applications available for both Symbian and MeeGo, and I would have had all of them available for Meltemi if it ever came out, for OBVIOUS reasons.

Saying that Nokia would need to LURE anyone to sell more copies on multiple platforms rather than just on one (while recompiling the packages was taking a few minutes) is idiotic. The only reason why many Symbian apps were not ported to N9 was because Elop killed Harmattan (along with Symbian) before the N9 came out so many developers just got scared away as they knew that N9's life time was limited to just months.

Finally, if they only unified those few QML differences (which they'd surely do if they further developed the platforms), they could EASILY offer to developers an option to submit an application for one selected platform (e.g. Symbian) and HAVE IT AUTOMATICALLY RECOMPILED, REBUILT and RELEASED for the remaining ones. They were signing packages at the Nokia store anyway, so adding a script to also recompile/rebuild them wouldn't make much problems.

"Old apps could not be ported, practically it was a start from the scratch."

No one cared about old (Symbian native C++) pre-Qt apps. Already in 2010 they were indeed years old, boring and unneded by anyone, and for a long time not further developed. Most of them had been replaced by Qt-based equivalents much earlier. Qt on Symbian (initially available as a user-installable Qt runtime) appeared already on S60 5th Edition, around 2 years before Symbian^3's built-in Qt runtime. Tens of thousands of Qt apps were made until H2 2010, before Elop.

Symbian's native C++ and its native APIs were complicated, difficult to learn and use, and until Qt came out for Symbian there were VERY FEW (in today's terms) apps for Symbian - just THOUSANDS. Only after Qt came out, there was an EXPLOSION of apps for Symbian. Therefore, those pre-Qt apps were such a small number and they were so old in 2010 that they were of absolutely NO ONE'S INTEREST anymore.

The above quote is completely wrong.

"BlackBerry had their corporate customer base, fan base, app store almost size of Ovi store… and they are now in rounding errors of the industry."

For completely different reasons. Comparing Nokia's Symbian, present on the market since 2001 and HAVING in 2010 hundreds of millions of users, with BlackBerry 10 which came to the smartphone market in early 2013 and had to start completely from scratch (as it was completely new, different and INCOMPATIBLE with previous BBOS and initially nearly fully relying on Android apps, so users needed to be convinced to upgrade to such a new Android-compatible OS rather than to Android itself), is nonsense.

This guy's "revelations" are 1% facts and 99% his individual presumptions/opinions, which are just as reliable as if they were my wife's.

===

Anyway, history proved Elop completely wrong and lethal in terms of Nokia's future. What he did destroyed Nokia completely. So one thing is certain: with Symbian, MeeGo and Meltemi (and without Elop and WP) Nokia just couldn't have been worse, ONLY BETTER. And if in 2012, two years after everything that Elop did, Symbian still had 6%, then without Elop even if everything else went wrong, it'd still have some 10-15% by now, serveral times more than what Windows Phone ever achieved.

Howgh.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 27.Nov.2014 22:17    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

As you know I am always a bit bemused by the Trojan Horse theory, firstly because I think it contrary to the personal interests of Elop and secondly because I do not find it inconcievable that Nokia was beyond salvation when Elop joined.

What does interest me is how you would fit the growth of the Meltemy group under Elop's reign in the Trojan Horse theory:

How many people were working on it?

Originally (i.e. 2010) I’d say 70 people, tops. By the time project was cancelled in 2012, there were over 1000 people if we include product creation, design, testing and subcontracting – mostly in Oulu and Ulm.
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PostPosted: Friday, 28.Nov.2014 04:39    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Originally (i.e. 2010) I’d say 70 people, tops. By the time project was cancelled in 2012, there were over 1000 people if we include product creation, design, testing and subcontracting – mostly in Oulu and Ulm.

I don't even know who says it and how reliable his information is. I have limited confidence in such revelations coming after years from a completely anonymous person (assuming that such person exists at all), on a niche site that now mainly supports Windows Phones and probably struggles to attract more visitors to keep their Google Adsense revenue levels, seriously lowered on such a Nokia fan site after Nokia's death.

Besides, many (most?) other things in that article make little (if any) sense, e.g. that in 2010-2011 Nokia worried about pre-Qt Symbian apps not being compatible with Qt - as if they didn't know it perfectly well some 2 years earlier when they decided to switch to Qt, or as if they didn't know that since Qt came out for Symbian nearly everyone was making only Qt apps. Or how Nokia allegedly worried about difficulties with porting QML apps between Symbian/MeeGo, while in reality there were no such difficulties at all, except for A FEW minor differences in Qt Components (Extras) which would have been effortlessly unified if the platforms were further developed. And so on.

So I don't really get it why in an article filled up with such an obvious nonsense I should treat seriously that under Elop the Meltemi team suddenly grew by 15 times, only to get killed months later. Or why at all Elop would have been (in such a tough situation) investing so much into trying to develop Meltemi, if he had Harmattan (that people LOVED on the N9) fully developed, acclaimed by the market, and running smooth as butter on a 1 GHz single core CPU, which means that it would run just as good on some 800 MHz single core (which the N9 was downclocking to - and below - anyway, under low load to save power) and the remaining hardware (camera, NFC, storage memory, display, radio, casing, sensors, battery, etc.) could have been easily downgraded to give a low-cost device -- without ANY R&D time or resources needed, it might even look the same as the N9 just like the Lumias stole N9's design.

So WHAT would have Elop needed Meltemi for? Why would he have paid 1000 people to develop it if he could just take Harmattan for free? Makes no sense whatsoever. He CLEARLY didn't want anything derived from (and resembling) Symbian or MeeGo to survive, or else he could have easily and effortlessly adopted Harmattan to a low end device instead of wasting time and money on Meltemi, that he eventually killed just like everything else, anyway. Not to even mention that Symbian worked very well on as low-end hardware as 600-700 MHz single-core CPU and 256 MB RAM (check specifications of e.g. the N8 that was the best selling Nokia product in 2010-2011 - it was running on lower hardware specs than the LOWEST-end smartphones in 2012-2013), so if he didn't just hate Symbian (just like MeeGo), he could have EASILY released a Symbian-based low-end device, without absolutely ANY R&D work.

Last but not least, if Elop clearly announced already in Feb 2011 that Nokia was switching ENTIRELY to Windows Phone, where in that strategy did Meltemi (a Linux OS with Qt middleware and Harmattan UI) fit? Simple answer: NOWHERE. And even if it was meant to be just a TEMPORARY product to fill the gap, for a year or two, then EVEN MORE he could have used Harmattan or Symbian instead of developing a wholly new platform from scratch just for a couple of phones. But no, instead of that after just 8 months since launch he murdered the best selling N9 that many people until today consider the best Nokia smartphone of all times. Don't tell me that he killed the highly demanded N9 to make space for Meltemi Very Happy

So much for that fabricated guy's revelations.

Quote:

I do not find it inconcievable that Nokia was beyond salvation when Elop joined.

Sure! Almost 40% smartphone marketshare (the iPhone in its entire history has never exceeded 20%, now it has some 16% or so and somehow no one whines that it does not grow as quickly as Android, which is what every Apple/Google-paid "expert" was repeating like a mantra in case of Symbian that in 2010 had 2,5 times the iPhone's marketshare and Symbian^3 clearly could have boosted it), some 30 million Symbian phones sold a quarter (and growing: 3 million more in Q4 2010 than in Q3, 6 million more than in Q2, 8 million more than in Q1 and 10 million more than in Q4 2009), in addition to that some 130 million feature phones a quarter, tens of billions of Euros in cash on Nokia's bank accounts (all of which just EVAPORATED under Elop within a year or so), 4 million N8's alone sold in just 2 months in Q4 2010 (that one model exceeding 1/4th of all iPhones, then the E7 selling just as well), Symbian^3 (for the first time in 4 years) receiving great reviews from everywhere and everyone anticipating the announced Anna/Belle/Carla/Donna updates, the Harmattan platform (and that only AFTER Elop announced ditching it) also getting great reviews in early 2011 (and the N9 becoming phone of the year) and selling in 2+ million units without any promotion or support until Elop killed it after just 8 months, and so on. Yeah, truly a DECAY!

And then Elop the Savior came, with one short memo told the whole world to stop buying Symbian and (upcoming) MeeGo phones (to which all network operators instantly reacted and cancelled millions of ordered Symbian devices) a year before he had any Lumias to sell, leaving Nokia without ANYTHING to sell which drained all its money within months, and then when Lumias eventually came out no one was bying them unless offered below production costs, for which Nokia still had to pay Microsoft Windows Phone royalties, ending up with a huge DEBT that Microsoft then GENEROUSLY deducted from what it bought Nokia for, as a result of which paying almost nothing.

Beyond salvation Nokia got the exact day that Elop became the CEO. Keep denying facts. Or if ANYTHING I wrote above isn't true, please name it.


Last edited by Michal Jerz on Friday, 28.Nov.2014 19:22; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Friday, 28.Nov.2014 19:21    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Elop clearly announced already in Feb 2011 that Nokia was switching ENTIRELY to Windows Phone

Elop was always talking about the next billion, and that was not part of the WP plans.
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PostPosted: Friday, 28.Nov.2014 20:04    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I guess it makes no sense to discuss if from a 100-line text you take the least important sentence and ignore all the rest.

Elop could have been just as well talking about the next zillion, while the only result was that within one year he turned the biggest and richest smartphone business into an utter bankrupt that had to sell its HQ and most of factories to stay alive. A teenage kid as Nokia CEO wouldn't have managed to destroy it HALF like that as he would be just incompetent, while Elop was intentionally harmful.

Blackberry did survive, so Nokia (MUCH bigger, richer, with uncomparably bigger and even more fanatic user base) would have survived, too, considering that even in 2012, after full two years of Elop doing everything to kill Symbian (and with no updates and no new phone models), it was still 6% of new phone shipments and it took canceling production of all Symbian phones to stop it.

If Blackberry wasn't beyond salvation then Nokia wasn't tripple as much. It's just that Blackberry didn't have its Trojan Horse.
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PostPosted: Friday, 28.Nov.2014 22:14    Post subject: It was a clear strategy, looking good at the time.   Reply with quote   

Quote:

I guess it makes no sense to discuss if from a 100-line text you take the least important sentence and ignore all the rest.

Well, you asked for it:
Quote:

Or if ANYTHING I wrote above isn't true, please name it.

And I limit myself to the most obvious.

The X1 Nokia developed subsequently (after Meltemy) for this next billion project was Android based, as apparently Meltemi was, and was defended by Elop in the takeover by Microsoft:
“Microsoft acquired the mobile phones business, inclusive of Nokia X, to help connect the next billion people to Microsoft's services,” Elop said in response to a question about the future of the Nokia X. “Nokia X uses the MSFT cloud, not Google's. This is a great opportunity to connect new customers to Skype, Outlook.com and Onedrive for the first time. We've already seen tens of thousands of new subscribers on MSFT services.”
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/29/stephen-elop-microso ft-nokia
So Elop was not so exclusively focussing on Windows Phone for Nokia as you always suggest. He defends the X1 as a way to get the next billion to use MS services. Actually it is Nadella who killed the X1.

The picture emerging is that the board of Nokia had a clear strategy. Get rid of the legacy sh*t, replace it with WP in the established markets and target emerging markets with a new home grown platform (Meltemi and when that did not work out the Android based X1).
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PostPosted: Friday, 28.Nov.2014 22:23    Post subject: Part 2 Mythbusting Meltemi   Reply with quote   

Part two of the Meltemi story on My Nokia Blog also available:

http://mynokiablog.com/2014/11/27/mythbusting-meltemi-part-2-the-purpo se-of-meltemi-nokia-clipper-qt/
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PostPosted: Saturday, 29.Nov.2014 01:16    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

And I limit myself to the most obvious.

I haven't seen you pointing out anything untrue in what I wrote. The only thing you wrote was some Elop's rubbish about "billions" while even the N9 was selling better than all Elop's Lumias combined (and that's why it had to be killed).

Quote:

The X1 Nokia developed subsequently (after Meltemy)

The Android-based X platform surely wasn't developed AFTER Meltemi. Nokia (like any other serious company investigating all options) had a team working on an Android project long before Elop came. The only thing that Elop ordered to do was to add to it that awful Windows Phone-like UI with tiles and Microsoft services (Bing, OneDrive, etc.) instead of Google ones.

Quote:

was Android based, as apparently Meltemi was

You don't even know what you're talking about.

Meltemi WASN'T Android-based. It only had a Linux kernel compatible with Android's Linux kernel, just like e.g. Sailfish OS. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with being "Android based". Android-compatible Linux kernels are used in order to get HARDWARE (and NOT software) COMPATIBILITY with Android hardware platforms, and that's only because it is now much cheaper and quicker to order or manufacture Android compatible components (SoCs or whole PCBs). Absolutely nothing to do with Android OS compatibility.

Same way, e.g. Ubuntu Touch has a Linux kernel compatible with Android's Linux kernel - and that's why it can run on e.g. Nexus 4 or Nexus 7, or the Meizu phone that they're going to launch it on. But it obviously has NOTHING to do with being "Android based", and it does not make any such system Android compatible.

Meltemi had a Linux kernel compatible with Android (for hardware compatibility) and on top of that it had Qt and a simplified Harmattan UI. Absolutely nothing to do with Android.

Quote:

Elop said

Who cares what Elop said (and that already after he went back to Microsoft) if right after that Microsoft did something COMPETELY OPPOSITE. Are you really so naive that you believe that Elop was saying something without knowing what Ballmer was going to do just a few months later and without having agreed it with him? Be serious.

Next billion, my ass. Let Microsoft exceed 3% marketshare first and only then they can tell fairytales about billions. The only billions Elop had something to do with were billions of Euros which EVAPORATED from Nokia's bank accounts within just months of his management, and also billions of Euros which Nokia owed to Microsoft as royalties for Lumias they sold below production costs. Now, those indeed were billions.

Quote:

So Elop was not so exclusively focussing on Windows Phone for Nokia as you always suggest.

No, not at all. And probably that's why he killed Symbian and MeeGo a year before he could sell Lumias (rather than wait and smoothly transit), Meltemi didn't ever come, and the X (in Windows Phone UI disguise) was offered only until Microsoft managed to finalize the Nokia acquisition (+ a couple of months to get rid of any remaining supplies), followed by Ashas, until NOTHING but Windows Phone remained.

So Elop "was not so exclusively focussing on Windows Phone" so much that he killed everything else there existed.

The difference between us is that I base my opinions on MATERIAL FACTS (i.e. what did really happen), while you base yours on what Elop SAID while what then happened was completely opposite.

Quote:

Actually it is Nadella who killed the X1.

Nadella or Ballmer (let alone Elop), they're just executives. It is those who OWN the company who decide. Nadella could kill at most a mosquito in his office without their decision.

Quote:

The picture emerging is that the board of Nokia had a clear strategy. Get rid of the legacy sh*t, replace it with WP

What you call "legacy sh*t" was making them the richest and biggest smartphone company, way ahead of any other, until Feb 11 2011 morning CET. Replacing that legacy sh*t with WP (or actually even just ANNOUNCING IT on Feb 11 2011, with the first HUGE drop in Nokia stock value only HOURS later) turned it into a bankrupt within a few months. So if it was really their strategy then they were either idiots or saboteurs, or quite possibly BOTH.

P.S. Calling MeeGo legacy sh*t is really amusing.


Last edited by Michal Jerz on Saturday, 29.Nov.2014 04:42; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Saturday, 29.Nov.2014 03:47    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:
Part two of the Meltemi story on My Nokia Blog also available:

Soap opera continues. Roman Empire's history will be shorter than that anonymous guy's recollections that he suddenly recalled after years and has chosen "thenokiablog" to let the whole world know.

Now he "clarifies" why he previously wrote such a bullsh*t, like e.g. "why did Nokia use QML". Now he excuses himself that "it was my best understanding [...] so I don’t have first hand knowledge whether this was the truth". Yeah.

And the truth is simple and obvious: Nokia used QML because QML is Qt's integral and default markup language. If they went Qt then OBVIOUSLY they had to use QML. What's there to talk about?

"Meltemi was supposed to run QML apps by default whereas C++ apps were possible but not recommended"

What kind of mad ass' sh*t is this?! Shocked Shocked In Qt, there is no separation between QML and C++ apps, both of them can be and ARE used simultaneously and COMPLEMENT THEMSELVES. One can make whole code and UI in C++, or code in C++ and UI in QML, or the whole code in QML (+ Javascript), or ANY OTHER COMBINATION OF THEM, e.g. you make some classes in C++ and then expose them to QML and use them from there.

Moreover, every Qt project *MUST* have at least main.cpp file because the C++ code in it starts the QML viewer and tells to it the location of the main QML file to show. You can't even start any QML file without the c++ code launching it.

Meltemi apps were originally wanted to run also on the N9 “as is”.

If they were meant to run on Harmattan as is then it confirms that they HAD to include C++ code (main.cpp) launching main.qml in QML viewer. What's more, on Harmattan (and Symbian too) qmlapplicationviewer was integral part of every application (C++ source with platform specific code such as screen orientation handling etc., automatically generated for every project and compiled into the main executable upon building). So, once again, there was no such thing as "QML only app" - every application had to have at least that basic C++ executable.

And the app gap from Symbian to MeeGo was nothing short of a public secret and there really were no good solutions to that.

Oh, sweet Lord, what kind of COSMIC BULLSH*T is this? Shocked The "app gap" from Symbian to MeeGo only had ONE OBVIOUS reason: the N9 was launched only AFTER Elop announced that the platform would not be continued and that the N9 was the ONLY phone ever based on it. This is the SOLE reason why so many developers didn't bother to port their apps to it.

If Harmattan was normally developed and more phones were to come based on it, everyone would have ported their apps for as simple reason as MONEY.

So saying that "there really were no good solutions to that" is really amusing. There was one obvious solution to that: not to have DISCONTINUED the platform before it was launched.

Killing the platform FIRST and THEN complaining that there are no apps for it is really a bad joke.

In 2011 it was “iOS first, Android second, others after that if needed”

Oh, really? Then how come that tens of thousands of apps kept coming for Symbian in 2011 and 2012 (and quite some even in 2013)? Who made them, aliens?

The answer is simple: because in 2011 Symbian still had 30 to 20% marketshare (up to DOUBLE of that of iOS), and even in second half of 2012 it still had 6% marketshare, TWICE that of Windows Phone today. And let's not forget that "marketshare" only means "new phones shipped", and not hundreds of millions of Symbian phones already (still) owned by people who were still buying TONS of apps for them.

Meltemi started on top of latest public Qt/QML version. In summer 2011 it shifts to Qt5/QML2 which both were publicly announced in December 2012 (by Digia)

Amazing how the guy knows such precise dates of Qt releases while at the same time he doesn't understand what QML is. As if someone just googled some information needed for the article, while not being familar with Qt itself.

If Meltemi went Qt5 / QtQuick 2 already in summer 2011 (i.e. before the N9 was released) then its applications COULD NOT run on Harmattan not only "as is", and not even after being recompiled and rebuilt, but their CODE also would need to be seriously modified for Harmattan's Qt4.8 / QtQuick 1.2. And Harmattan obviously WOULD NOT be upgraded to Qt5 because Elop announced ditching it already in Feb 2011, long before the N9 came out, and half a year before Meltemi allegedly went Qt5.

This guy's revelations just don't stick.

"Is Sailfish influenced by Meltemi? Yes. The Qt5 components made in Meltemi are widely used there."

So he is also a Sailfish OS expert! How nice. It's only a pity that he doesn't remember that Sailfish (and its entire Silica UI) was originally created on Qt4.8 / QtQuick 1 (so it could not just "widely use Meltemi's Qt5 components), and only A YEAR later upgraded (at the cost of many months of delay) to Qt5, but the UI remained identical, just rewritten in Qt5/QtQuick 2. And it was updated to Qt5 not really (or actually NOT AT ALL) for Qt5 itself but because Qt5 was needed for Wayland and certain other Android-related things, i.e. for Android hardware compliance. So saying that Sailfish OS is based on (or even just "influenced by") Meltemi's Qt5 components is AMUSING, as it would mean that Jolla first ported those "Meltemi Qt5 components" from Qt5 to Qt4.8 (original Sailfish OS) only to port them back to Qt5 after a year Smile

If those Jolla guys were really under any kind of Meltemi's influence, they would have originally created Sailfish OS on Qt5 rather than on Qt4.8 and only a year later upgraded it when they decided that Android compliance is their MAIN goal.

So many of the swipe/pull gestures used in Sailfish UI exist since Meltemi development already had UI using those.

And to Meltemi they OBVIOUSLY came from Harmattan, along with the rest of the UI code.

The UI itself looks different from Meltemi.

That's well known. Meltemi's UI OBVIOUSLY didn't differ much from Harmattan's as it was intended to preserve the same UI design accross all Nokia platforms.

Asha UI and also some deeper levels of Nokia X UI have been mostly copied from MeltemiUI.

Meltemi UI was mostly copied from Harmattan UI and just crippled to fit Meltemi's intended low-end only functionality. So what sense does it make to say that something was "mostly copied from Meltemi UI", instead of saying the TRUTH that ALL OF THEM simply originate from the same UI design that Nokia intended to use accross ALL their platforms.

It's pathetic how that article tries to add to Meltemi a VIRTUAL SIGNIFICANCE that it never had. Soon the guy will tell us that even Symbian's UI comes from Meltemi.

"The same design,team has worked on all three AFAIK so they try to be consistent."

Which is obvious and well know without such fabricated revelations. Everyone knows that Nokia wanted to UNIFY UIs of all their platforms, that's why Symbian Anna/Belle and Harmattan got an almost identical UI, and then Series 40 on Ashas followed them, including even identical icon style. And so would have Meltemi.

..... and then there goes 200 lines describing as simple thing (and well known to everyone who was interested in Meltemi) as that it was meant to be a much simplified version of Harmattan with advanced things like multitasking cut out, able to run on low-end hardware. Lots of words, with no real meaning, maybe except for just ONE interesting thing (if true) that Nokia's INSANE goal was 128 MB of RAM. Insane and completely unneeded, as by the time the platform could have been developed and ready for release no one was making SoCs with just 128 MB of RAM anymore, so buying such components would probably be more expensive than with 256 MB which became a standard in low-end Android phones in 2013. And they used an Android-compatible kernel in order to be able to cheaply use Android hardware, right?

Anyway, it is quite possible that Nokia had such an idiotic requirement as 128 MB RAM. Releasing heavily underpowered hardware had been A RULE at Nokia (with little to no exceptions) since the very beginning. It even killed some of their products (including what they wanted to be their flagships) like e.g. the N97 where due to too little memory (64 MB, of which nearly 50 MB used by the system, can you believe?) it wasn't even possible to open multiple web browser windows and it became Nokia's most spectacular failure just when Nokia desperately needed something to compete with iPhones and Androids. Samsung's or SonyEricsson's Symbian phones (e.g. Omnia HD, Satio, Vivaz) at that time all had twice faster processors and 4x more RAM. Omnia HD was literally flying compared to the most expensive Symbian "flagships" (slow as turtle) from Nokia. That was what (combined with S60 5th Edition's hopeless UI) made so many people buy Android phones in 2008 and 2009. NOT Symbian itself, but the cr*ppy hardware Nokia was selling it on, and the cr*ppy UI they've made for it (instead of Hildon UI that they dumped on Symbian).

Anyway, that was the only thing in that article that was worth reading and commenting on. The rest is a mixture of well known facts and speculations (mostly erroneous as all those Qt/QML related).

Let's wait for the third part of that soap opera. Maybe we'll learn that Elop decided to divorce his wife just because Meltemi became his new love.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 29.Nov.2014 10:51    Post subject: Strategies can fail   Reply with quote   

Quote:
I haven't seen you pointing out anything untrue in what I wrote.
You are overlooking the FACT that the Nokia strategy was not an WP only, but included future home grown options. That would have brought them in a position that they would have had an alternative to WP. Wich makes sense.
Quote:

Nadella or Ballmer (let alone Elop), they're just executives. It is those who OWN the company who decide.

OK, so we agree that the strategic decisions within Nokia can not be attributed to Elop alone, wich makes et even more far fetched to think of Elop as a trojan horse.
Quote:
So if it was really their strategy then they were either idiots or saboteurs, or quite possibly BOTH.

It is obvious now that their strategy failed, in the sense that it did not yield the desired outcome. You actually suppose that it was successfull in the sense that it did yield the desired outcome, but this would not be something that you could keep a secret.
But the fact about strategies is that they are by no means certain to be successfull. It can even be the case that you are to late and there is nothing you can do about certain developments.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 29.Nov.2014 19:31    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

You are overlooking the FACT that the Nokia strategy was not an WP only, but included future home grown options. That would have brought them in a position that they would have had an alternative to WP.

No, I do not agree that there was any such strategy because I could not see any material trace of such "facts". On the contrary, everything I had seen DENIED the existence of any such plans.

First of all, if Elop really wanted to have a serious alternative to WP, he wouldn't have killed Harmattan, ESPECIALLY if he really wanted Meltemi to ever come out, because the two were brothers perfectly complementing each other and allowing Nokia to have one unified OS for ALL their devices - from feature phones to high-end smartphones.

While Symbian was a "proprietary" system that Nokia could have really wanted to move away from (and that's what they were saying already before Elop - there were plans to slowly transit to Maemo/MeeGo) due to being difficult and costly to further develop (they'd need to maintain and futher develop it solely by themselves - both hardware and software), Harmattan was a completely normal "industry standard" Linux OS, whose kernel could have been easily updated to an Android-compliant Linux kernel (just like on Meltemi or now on Jolla or Ubuntu) and it could have been updated to Qt5 (just like Meltemi, or now Jolla or Ubuntu).

Meltemi was a platform derived from Harmattan, very similar to it, compatible with it. Meltemi could have replaced Asha and low-end Symbian devices, Harmattan could have replaced high-end and mid-range Symbian devices. ONE system, Linux-based, able to run on Android hardware, whose development could have been unified.

Only THAT was making any sense. It perfectly allowed Nokia to get rid of all their "proprietary" OSes (Series 40, Symbian) and instead of three platforms only have ONE Linux system to go on with. A system with beautiful UI (acclaimed by the market on the N9), gesture-based, easy to maintain, based on Linux co-developed by countless companies and organisations wordwide.

That Elop INSTANTLY killed Harmattan (despite so great reception and so good sales of the N9) is the best proof that he DID NOT WANT to have any alternative for WP, and also that he DIDN'T really want Meltemi to ever become a serious product, as Meltemi was only making sense TOGETHER with Harmattan, and not separately, as only WITH Harmattan it was giving the benefit of one common Linux platform for all devices. Meltemi itself, without Harmattan, COULDN'T be an alternative to WP, because it only targeted low-end devices - somewhere between feature phones and smartphones.

Harmattan (and Meltemi) were NOT "legacy sh*t" as you called it. They were what now (in late 2014, many years later) everyone entering the mobile market (Ubuntu, Tizen, Jolla, etc.) now uses: Linux + Qt. So in 2011 they were what in 2014 became sort of "industry standard". Both Tizen and Mer (that Jolla is based on) are derived from Maemo/MeeGo.

And do not forget that in 2011 Alien Dalvik (Android compatibility layer - the same as used by Jolla, Blackberry and Tizen) already existed and was publicly demoed working fine on the N9 at Mobile World Congress, so if app availability was any concern, Nokia could have easily added it to Harmattan and made all their high-end Harmattan smartphones Android-compatible and able to run hundreds of thousands of Android apps, just like BB10 and Jolla now.

So, once again, while killing Symbian (as a "proprietary, legacy OS difficult to further develop") might have been justified, that Elop also INSTANTLY killed Harmattan was the best proof that he DID NOT WANT to have any alternative for WP, and that he never wanted Meltemi to play any important role but maybe to just TEMPORARILY fill the gap until low-end WP phones could be made. Just exactly what they did with the X platform that wasn't allowed to live longer than a year or so.

THESE are FACTS.

Quote:

OK, so we agree that the strategic decisions within Nokia can not be attributed to Elop alone

Of course. Elop was just a messenger, a puppet, with its strings reaching Seattle.

Quote:

wich makes et even more far fetched to think of Elop as a trojan horse.

On the contrary, it perfectly fits the definition of a trojan horse. It was the Greeks who built and sent the trojan horse to Troy, and it was Microsoft who sent the Elop trojan horse to Nokia. Call him Nokian horse if you prefer.

Quote:

It is obvious now that their strategy failed

That strategy DIDN'T fail, on the contrary, it fully succeeded in letting Microsoft acquire Nokia for nothing. History repeats itself. Microsoft tried to do the same thing a decade earier with Sendo, also when they were struggling to push their new (at that time) smartphone OS ("Stinger"). They didn't manage to get Sendo but they ruined it as well.

Quote:

You actually suppose that it was successfull in the sense that it did yield the desired outcome, but this would not be something that you could keep a secret.

What you're saying implies that in the whole history of mankind there never were any conspiracies, as following your way of thinking no one would have ever attempted any conspiracy due to "not being able to keep it secret". Which of course is nonsense.

Quote:

But the fact about strategies is that they are by no means certain to be successfull.

In this story NOTHING, not a single decision or action, was successful (in terms of Nokia's future). On the contrary, EVERYTHING they did was CLEARLY aimed at Nokia's failure. No honest CEO willing to SAVE (rather than destroy) his company would have announced killing Symbian and Harmattan more than *A YEAR* before the first Lumia unit could have been shipped - and that at the time when the N8 and the E7 were selling at the level of 50% global iPhone shipments. And even if one did it "by mistake", having seen a HUGE drop of stock price only HOURS later (and all operators canceling millions of ordered units) he would have withdrawn from it or at least tried to calm down the market, instead of repeating multiple times the same thing, which within a couple of months brought Nokia stock prices to ZERO point something.

No honest CEO would have canceled the production of the N9 after merely 8 months, while it was selling in around 1 million units per quarter, and that when the company was already severely cash-starving due to millions of canceled Symbian orders and actually didn't have ANYTHING else left to sell. Just those two decisions alone ruined Nokia, let alone everything else. And they had absolutely NOTHING to do with whether Nokia was to switch to WP or not. They were CLEARLY aimed at making Nokia weak and fully dependent on Microsoft, with no other option left, should Nokia Board come back to their senses and started "acting up". If you don't see this, there's just no point in discussing anything else.

Quote:

It can even be the case that you are to late and there is nothing you can do about certain developments.

Blackberry (a company incomparably smaller, poorer and weaker than what Nokia had been by Feb 2011) that prior to BB10 didn't have *ANY* smartphone OS, was late (compared to Nokia) by a further whopping TWO YEARS with releasing their smartphone OS, yet it survived and slowly recovers, so Nokia (a much more iconic brand with world's biggest and extremely loyal user base) with (as of Feb 2011) multi-billion cash reserves, hundreds of millions of existing Symbian smartphone owners (and a billion or so of feature phone owners), 35% smarthpone marketshare and 70% feature phone marketshare, a new Harmattan OS ready for release in 2011, et cetera, obviously had 1000x bigger chances to survive with its own in-house developments.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 30.Nov.2014 14:30    Post subject: This interview is just a piece of the puzzle   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Of course. Elop was just a messenger, a puppet, with its strings reaching Seattle.

But if Elop was not in charge alone at Nokia, because the board was, that would mean all the board members were puppets on a string reaching Seattle. If you imagine how this would work in practice it would be very, very complicated, would'nt it? Besides, why would Elop ever do this? Does'nt exactly fit in his ambition to become a successfull CEO, does it?!?

Quote:

What you're saying implies that in the whole history of mankind there never were any conspiracies, as following your way of thinking no one would have ever attempted any conspiracy due to "not being able to keep it secret". Which of course is nonsense.

No, I am not talking about history, I am talking about now. What you imply is that multiple people whith executive powers, both at Nokia and at Microsoft, would be in involved in a scam to deflate the Nokia price so that Microsoft could buy it. This would be very hard to keep secret, besides, why would Nokia guys go along with something like that?

Quote:

that Elop also INSTANTLY killed Harmattan was the best proof that he DID NOT WANT to have any alternative for WP, and that he never wanted Meltemi to play any important role but maybe to just TEMPORARILY fill the gap until low-end WP phones could be made. Just exactly what they did with the X platform that wasn't allowed to live longer than a year or so.

THESE are FACTS.

I do not agree that these are facts. These are your opinions on technology and business logic.

So if you are a strong believer in the idea that Elop came to Nokia to kill it you can easily frame the things that happened to be consistent wiht that worldview. But you can as well understand them in terms of a company in difficulty reacting to developments in technology and markets that are unexpected and fast.

For instance that WP was able to go to cheap hardware faster and further then Microsoft expected.
Or that MS needed to make some hard choices faster then expected wich led to unprecedented lay ofs and choices effecting the X1.

If there is one industry where things are unpredictbale and changes are ultrafast it is the tech industry.

Obviously the beauty of a conspiracy theory is that most things fall nicely in place without you having to face the infinitive complexity and unpredictability of real life. But if you have to resort to explenations like, "yes, he invested heavily in this or that but he did not really want it and he was going to kill it any way as soon as he could, which is logical because he was under orders from Seattle and he only wanted WP", well, you can get very lonely.

The nice thing of this interview on The Nokia Blog, and there have been others on the goings on within Nokia, is that it starts to paint the picture of what really happened. It will be interesting to follow the revelations!
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PostPosted: Monday, 01.Dec.2014 03:00    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

But if Elop was not in charge alone at Nokia, because the board was, that would mean all the board members were puppets on a string reaching Seattle.

I think we've already discussed it several times. At least some members propably were in it, and the remaining ones were simply naive (as the history proved them to be) and were led to believe in that "great plan" of swiching to this "marvellous" Windows Phone (that no one else had any success with, and still doesn't have until today) and conquering the world with it. And when those people realized a few months later that it was a mistake, there was no way back anymore as Elop instantly burned all bridges.

That's how it usually is with such things: a few people fool around the remaining ones. Even Hitler came to power this way after a handful of people convinced everyone else (politicians, bankers, huge interpreneurs, etc.) that he would be Germany's savior. Very soon it became clear to everyone that he wasn't, but it was too late to withdraw.

So, like I wrote, it was a mixture of saboteurs and naive idiots, like ALWAYS.

P.S. Don't make me repeat the same yet another time when we talk about it again in a month or two. Thanks.

Quote:

Besides, why would Elop ever do this? Does'nt exactly fit in his ambition to become a successfull CEO, does it?!?

And who told you that he had such ambitions?

There was a Polish king, the last one, between 1764 and 1795, from one of Poland's most noble families. One might expect him to also have ambitions to be another successful king of one of the biggest European countries (over 1 million sq km, Polish-Lithuenian Commonwealth). Guess what, instead of that he turned out to be Russian tsaress' lover, servant and debtor, and during his reign (while being regularly PAID for that) he led to three partitionings of Poland after which it lost all its territory and disappeared from maps of Europe for 150 years becoming its neighbours' provinces. After that, he just abdicated (on Russian tsaress Catherine's birthday, because she had chosen such a date) and escaped to Russia.

The king was taking LOADS of money, he was getting his debts paid, and in exchange for that he completely destroyed his own country, not without help of many others whom in turn he was paying (with parts of the money he was receiving). He was elected on a promise of peace and friendship with Russia in which many Polish and Lithuenian noblemen believed and elected him, whereas he just sold the whole country for his debts and some more.

Notice the similarity. Even debts are similar as our Boston Chicken hero allegedly was divorcing and owed his wife quite some cash.

Clearly, there are people for who huge money and other benefits are more important than even being a successful king of a huge country, let alone a CEO of some company (especially if one is promised to become Vice President of some other - even wealthier - company instead).

Read historical books, they're a TREASURY of knowledge about human nature. As I wrote, history repeats itself, all the time.

Quote:

No, I am not talking about history, I am talking about now.

Now is part of history. Even just tomorrow morning "now" will be history. Soon someone will write a book about Eflop, just like countless books were written about that king, but only after years it was discovered that the king was a paid traitor when documents were found in which he was confirming the receipt of money he was getting and for what. So give it time. People have been the same for centuries.

Eflop is not the first, and not the last, person who preferred millions of dollars more than fame and ambitions. And what a greedy shmuck he is he proved more than well with how he took that pay off, and insolently excused it with an alleged divorce no one has heard about since then. If he had ANY ambition, he wouldn't have taken it (especially that he was so explicitly ASKED, also by Finnish government people), even just because he ruined the company he was given in pristine condition and left in ashes (no matter why and how, even just because of wrong strategy or lack of necessary skills, doesn't really matter). Ambitions, my ass. Pure MONEY.

Quote:

deflate the Nokia price so that Microsoft could buy it.

That's precisely what happened, didn't it.

Quote:

I do not agree that these are facts. These are your opinions on technology and business logic.

WHAT exactly you don't consider facts?

* That Harmattan was killed instantly? Yes, it was. On Feb 11, 2011, Elop called MeeGo and Symbian burning platforms and announced that both would be discontinued. That was MONTHS before the N9 came out, so Elop CLEARLY DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO CHECK how successful the new platform could be. And when the N9 then turned out to be successful despite of it, he instantly canceled its production. Keep pretending that it's not true.

* That production of the N9 was cancelled after 8 months while it was selling in around 1 million units a quarter (better than any Lumia a year later) and while Nokia didn't have anything else left to sell? Yes, it was.

* That the X platform was killed instantly after Microsoft acquired Nokia and got rid of all supplies? Yes, it was.

* That Meltemi which Elop allegedly was so excited about was never released and not even once publicly mentioned? It wasn't. And if Elop ever really wanted it to come out, at least selected developers would have been asked to start making software for it so that it could come out with more than ZERO apps. Just like it was on Harmattan and N900 where a few hundred apps were available at launch.

* That the "burning platform memo" was disclosed JUST when the N8 was selling in 4 million units a quarter (25% of all iPhone shipments), i.e. better than any other Symbian smartphone in Nokia's history thus clearly showing that Symbian is back to the game, and exactly on the day of long-awaited E7 launch (that was meant to be Nokia's new flagship), which only an idiot can consider a coincidence, and everyone with IQ higher than that of a chimpansee clearly understands that it was to kill E7 sales? Yes, it was.

* That even though it only took a few hours after Elop's "burning memo" for Nokia stock price to start DIVING (easy to check on any financial portal with stock quotes), Elop kept repeating the same on and on whenever he could, which made Nokia shares cost less than paper they're printed on? Yes, he did.

* That announcing discontinuation of Symbian OVER A YEAR before Nokia could start selling Lumias instantly left Nokia with NOTHING to make money on as all operators instantly cancelled all their Symbian orders and millions of individual customers were afraid of buying a phone based on a discontinued platform? Yes, that's exactly how it was.

So you're denying REALITY.

Quote:

But you can as well understand them in terms of a company in difficulty reacting to developments in technology and markets that are unexpected and fast.

Blah, blah, blah.

Quote:

For instance that WP was able to go to cheap hardware faster and further then Microsoft expected.

Oh, really? Any examples of such X replacement from Microsoft even now, months later?

Quote:

Obviously the beauty of a conspiracy theory is that most things fall nicely in place without you having to face the infinitive complexity and unpredictability of real life.

If anything here can be a conspirary theory then it's what YOU are saying:

Good, fair Microsoft, which for the first time in its entire history, unlike ever before, didn't want to acquire a business it so badly needed (and which it then did acquire anyway, just paid 1000x less) but instead wanted to peacefully cooperate with it and throw money at it. Elop the Boomerang that flew in to Nokia from Microsoft, bounced and flew away back to Microsoft where for his SPECTACULAR SUCCESS at Nokia he got promoted to Microsoft Vice President. And that despite his apparent idiocy that caused that the poor guy didn't understand that announcing discontinuation of all Nokia smartphone platforms nearly 1,5 years before they could make any Lumias would OBVIOUSLY ruin the company, like it did. And he undestood sh*t from it even after he did it and the market instantly reacted to it with an instant huge drop of stock price and all Symbian orders cancelled - but he was so damn stupid (which at Microsoft is apparently an advantage if such people get promoted to Vice Presidents) that he just kept repeating it and just watching the company collapse, and he even canceled production of the LAST phone that was still selling well, the N9, because he thought that Nokia didn't need to sell any phones to be rich. And so on.

Now, THAT is a conspiracy theory. Or maybe rather an UTTER CR*P.

Quote:

well, you can get very lonely.

Better lonely but thinking than in the middle of an army of politically correct useful idiots who reject everything that doesn't fit their politically correct world where every excuse is better than apparent truth.

Quote:

it starts to paint the picture of what really happened

Really funny. Niche site struggling for visitors, alleged anonymous someone without even a first name whose revelations (e.g. all those related to Qt) don't even stick, and this is going to "paint the picture of what REALLY happened". Stunning, I'm speechless.
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PostPosted: Monday, 01.Dec.2014 08:12    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Technology conversations and world history lessons?? That is why I love this site so much. In all seriousness (and it has been discussed countless times on here), the discontinuation of Symbian was short-sighted and ill-advised.

Not only was Symbian^3 a great 'restarting' point for the platform, but the future Anna and Belle updates really brought the platform in parity with Android and iOS from a user friendliness perspective.

The N9 was not only successful, it was loved by critics and was a lightning-in-a-bottle platform that really could have shifted the landscape. Instead everything was pushed to Windows Phone, the userbase went to Android and the rest is history.
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