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New sailfish update now available as opt-in

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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 22.Oct.2014 19:46    Post subject: New sailfish update now available as opt-in   Reply with quote   

So now we know the reason for the delay of update 9. Read here

https://together.jolla.com/question/59874/release-notes-opt-in-upgrade -to-software-version-11038-uitukka/

They have problems getting their changes stable due to update to qt 5.2.

I opted-in and will try the update tonight and will report.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 22.Oct.2014 20:19    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

They have problems getting their changes stable due to update to qt 5.2.

Qt 5.2 has been stable for 8 months or maybe more. Maybe if they weren't spending most of this year working on things like Android launcher then they would have managed to "get their changes stable" long ago and they wouldn't need to be in such a hurry now? If they started working on it only now, no wonder they can't get it ready in time.
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 22.Oct.2014 20:28    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Yeah, that's true. But no one knows if that is the real reason. Maybe they just explain it that way. When you read the release notes and bugfixes, they did quite some work again. They write that they have problem with memory management and that this may lead to unresponsive UI and that's why they decided not to go public with this release yet. But I think they understand that they have to get out with QT 5.2 now and provide some sort of activity sign on the OS itself, so that's probably why they decided to release the update this way.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 22.Oct.2014 21:29    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, it's still good that they do something at last. Hopefully, after they manage to switch to Qt 5.2 they'll finally allow all the Qt modules.
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Thursday, 23.Oct.2014 08:24    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Unfortunately (or do I have to say fortunately?) the opt-in did not work for me. I do not receive the new update. That's the unlucky part.

However, that's the lucky part, it seems as if there are several problems with this update (not only the mentioned OOM).

Users complain about several (native) apps not working after update (probably because of QT 5.2) and some can't even finish the update process.

So I decided to wait for the official stable release.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Thursday, 23.Oct.2014 15:44    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I was anticipating problems, so I didn't even try.

Anyway, as I said, they had so many months since Qt 5.2 became stable that they really didn't have to do it in such a hurry now.

Just for comparison (a randomly found news), Ubuntu Touch was switched to Qt 5.2 in *MARCH 2014*, which clearly shows how long ago it could have been done.

http://linuxg.net/ubunt-touch-image-250-is-now-based-on-qt-5-2-1/

I've just checked and Qt 5.2 was officially released on December 12, 2013.

http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2013/12/12/qt-5-2-released-the-best-qt-y et/
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PostPosted: Thursday, 23.Oct.2014 19:52    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I wonder why they didn't just skip 5.2 and jump straight to 5.3 which has been available since May: http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2014/05/20/qt-5-3-released/
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PostPosted: Friday, 24.Oct.2014 15:14    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

I wonder why they didn't just skip 5.2 and jump straight to 5.3 which has been available since May

You know, since the very beginning it's been a comedy of errors. First they made it all in Qt 4.8 (as if they didn't know that Qt 5 was coming and that for their future plans they needed Wayland so they needed Qt 5), and as soon as they had it ready on Qt 4.8 (and numerous developers spent time on porting their apps to it) they switched to Qt 5.1, which delayed everything by almost one year. Now they're switching to Qt 5.2, almost a year since its release, while Qt 5.3 has been available for half a year, so maybe next year they'll do it all over again and upgrade to Qt 5.3.

The newsletter I got today states that: "After the Finnish summer holidays we started to work on a major technological change - updated our framework from Qt 5.1 to 5.2" - the guys spent the first half of 2014 doing the Android launcher, then they took a holiday, and a few weeks ago they started working on Qt 5.2 upgrade. No wonder they can't get it to work that quick. And while they're so busy with it, I guess we should forget about other things, like e.g. support for paid apps, until mid 2015 or so.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 25.Oct.2014 17:21    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, they can still skip Qt-5.3 and jump straight from 5.2 to 5.4 after 5.4 is ready. 5.4 is scheduled for release in December. If they make beta upgrades with 5.2 now, then I think it makes no sense to upgrade to 5.3 at all, rather wait until 5.4 is ready and upgrade to that. Based on the current speed of development I doubt they will upgrade Qt again before Qt5.4 is ready.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 25.Oct.2014 20:47    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

If they were planning to upgrade to Qt 5.4, what sense would it make to upgrade to Qt 5.2 at all...?
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PostPosted: Sunday, 26.Oct.2014 00:40    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Qt5.2 was a mistake in my opinion. It either came too late, or should have been skipped in favour of a newer Qt-version, but now as they have started the Qt5.2 upgrade so now I think they better finish it and work on other things for a while. Because 5.4 probably will be released this year, and I think Jolla should not work on Qt again for at least 3-4 months I think it is better to wait until 5.4 is mature and go for that for the next Qt upgrade. Well, if they don't wait until Qt5.5 is ready and mature, then that would be acceptable too. I don't know if Jolla has any upgrade plans for Qt after the 5.2 version, but I think it is a natural evolution if they keep maintaining and developing SailfishOS.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 26.Oct.2014 14:57    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I think that once they fully upgrade to Qt 5.2 or whichever else version, they should stick to it for a year or two, not just months. It really isn't that much important which version they use, it is much more important that they FULLY support it, i.e. that their implementation is complete (all modules, etc.), final, stable, bug free, etc. Look, BB10 is based on three years old Qt 4.8 release - and so what. Instead of wasting time on upgrading to a newer Qt version every now and then, BlackBerry keeps improving their QNX OS (i.e. what's beneath Qt) and their Cascades framework (i.e. what's above Qt) - thanks to which they now have a really stable, complete, secure and functional platform.

If Jolla keep upgrading to every new Qt version that comes out every couple of months, they'll end up with a permanently unfinished platform, and with no time left to fully polish their Silica as well as the underlying Mer OS, which IMO is much more important. Every such upgrade will result in some new bugs to be fixed, some issues to be solved, and so on, while the platform first of all needs to get stable and final.

IMO they should consider upgrading only when a new MAJOR version of Qt comes out and brings something really worth the hassle. Other than that, they should fully focus on finishing and polishing their OS as a whole.

I agree that jumping from Qt 4.8 to Qt 5 had many benefits, but differences between minor Qt releases are so small that it simply isn't worth doing it at the expense of not having time to do all the remaining things still so pathetically missing.

If BlackBerry could build a modern, fully functional, powerful and stable OS based on ancient Qt 4.8 then Jolla surely can do it based on Qt 5.2, without wasting time over the next year or two on upgrading to every minor Qt release that comes out.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 26.Oct.2014 19:15    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Let's not forget that Qt4.8 is a mature and stable target and only receive minor updates. The Qt4 series is about 9 years old and the current releases are limited to bugfixes. Staying with Qt4.8 is much better than staying with Qt5.1, because qt4.8 is not going to go out of support any time soon. For Qt5 it makes sense to drop support for older versions as improvements are made.

Qt5 is still actively in development and change a lot more from version to version. Each new version brings bugfixes and new features, but I think it might still break compatibility with modules like silica. I think it is a good idea to keep up to date, but upgrading qt should be limited to maybe every other Qt release. It is not a good idea to diverge too much from upstream because if they do then they might need to solve new issues themselves rather than rely on updates from upstream. It is not a good idea to upgrade too often either though, because they clearly does not have manpower to always use the latest and greatest.

I think it makes sense to try sticking as close to the Qt version in ubuntu touch, and the versions the qt-project recommend for android and iOS, while not upgrading more often than they have manpower for. Qt should be upgraded, just as everything else, but not at the expense of other important upgrades.
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PostPosted: Friday, 31.Oct.2014 10:14    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I now installed the update. First I didn't receive the update notification allthough I sent the opt-in mail. Yesterday I rebooted my device and the notification was there and I was able to download the update. The update process was easy and without any problems as always. The first impression is good. So far I did not have any issues described by Jolla or at together.jolla. The only obvious "problem" is with openrepos warehouse app that sometimes now blocks, but that could be a warehouse app problem itself as well.
I really like how they solved the pulley menu from lock screen issue (items have not been accessible if device was locked). They "followed my suggestion" from together so that you now can access the menu items and then you have to enter the unlock code to get to the app. The app is already started in the background so that e.g. starting the camera from lock-screen pulley menu now is very easy and fast. Just select entry, enter code and you are directly ready to take a photo.
As as side effect (probably not intended by jolla by quite useful IMHO) the flashlight app is now even accessible (i.e. turn flashlight on) without entering the code, because the app is already started in background and turns flashlight on. In order to turn it off you have to enter the unlock code.
The new position of the page indicators (dots in upper left corner) now take less space and I like it the way it's now but it's true that now it's not possible anymore to see how many pages are to the left or right as you could see from the dots before.
The patchmanager doesn't seem to work anymore, but this will probably be fixed by the developers in the near future.

Overall it seems to be a good update and I hope they will bring it to public as soon as possible and will continue to do something for paid apps and module support in store directly afterwards.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 01.Nov.2014 01:17    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

As as side effect (probably not intended by jolla by quite useful IMHO) the flashlight app is now even accessible (i.e. turn flashlight on) without entering the code, because the app is already started in background and turns flashlight on. In order to turn it off you have to enter the unlock code.

Really? There is a tradeoff between security and convenience, but if my phone is locked then I expect no-one to be able to find out which applications I have installed, or start anything. Why have a lock at all if it doesn't protect you? Why is it better to start an application first and unlock it afterwards than the other way around? I didn't buy this phone, but if this isn't optional behaviour, then I think it is yet another reason why I should not buy the Jolla phone.
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