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What are those partnerships of Jolla in fact?

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Kleuter
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PostPosted: Friday, 22.May.2015 22:29    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

This article gives a glimpse of what Jolla wants to be. They probably do what start-ups do: try all kinds of stuff and hope to find something that works before running out of resources.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-inside-story-of-russias-own-mobile-os -its-not-what-you-think/
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PostPosted: Saturday, 23.May.2015 15:22    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Whatever their goal is, it still does not explain or excuse their absolute lack of support for native development. ESPECIALLY if it appears that their OS might possibly be of interest only to those who are looking for a platform to make themselves independent of Android, and therefore would probably want to use their system WITHOUT ACL and rely on native software (or else it makes little sense). To this kind of possible future licensees, the platform would surely look much more attractive and mature if instead of Android compatibility Jolla was strongly focused on native development support. The SDK in an endless alpha stage (now codenamed "beta" after they... upgraded the QtCreator version in it), still lack of support for many Qt modules, lack of complete and mature software distribution platform, lack of developer documentation (nothing but Silica is documented, and even that not fully), etc., surely does not make the system as attractive to THIS KIND of possible licensees as it would be if native development was complete and mature.
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PostPosted: Saturday, 23.May.2015 19:13    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I agree. They have constantly been promising al kinds of stuff and suggesting great things were around the corner, nothing has happened yet. Apparently the SDK is not in their view not necessary to get a new device partner.

Now they place their bets on India and say: According to Saarnio, Jolla is planning to announce a new Indian device vendor partner "very soon". They certainly need a new phone, that is for sure.

Well, let´s hope for them that something will start to work. China did not (yet). We got to wait and see what Russian users want. And if the Indan adventure will take of.

They are making it very clear they will not be a device company. But the interest from their fans comes........ when they launch a new device, like the tablet. The thing that gets the fans enthousiastic (a new phone or a tablet) is the thing that they can not do.

Well, I wish them best of luck, but we have to be realistic, nothing much has materialised of all their fanfare announced partnerships upto now.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 24.May.2015 04:03    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

They are making it very clear they will not be a device company.

Which, as you pointed out, is contradictory to what they actually do. The only time when they become really active is when.... they launch a new device. The world could hear about Jolla only when they were launching the phone, and now the tablet -- clearly because that's the time when people feed Jolla with their money. Other than that they hibernate for months and in the meantime only rarely issue vague statements about their device launching in some new Asian or African country, which in fact is a hardware related activity, too.

Compared to this, since their Jolla phone pre-order campaign started TWO YEARS AGO, there have been absolutely no software related activities. Still no developer program of any kind, no developer events, no development resources published, literally nothing. The only software-related announcement of theirs, Younited integration, turned out (after 6 months of waiting) to be an Android client, which one could have grabbed from Google Play instantly, without waiting 6 months for what Jolla promised and never delivered.

They still promote Android compatibility (see what's listed on top of their latest OS update press release), and that's while those who show any potential interest in licensing their OS clearly say that they do in in order to MOVE AWAY from Android.

So it really amazes me that a company that intends to be purely an OS vendor does absolutely nothing to build an ecosystem around their OS, not to say PREVENTS it by endlessly delaying access to the most basic development tools, APIs, documentation. This is completely unlike any other OS vendor.

Which makes absolutely no sense ......unless their true intention is NOT to ever make this a global end-user OS, but only an OS for some LOCAL use of some authority (like the Russian or Chinese government) or business, who will then take care to support it JUST FOR THEMSELVES. This seems to be the only reasonable explanation and the only case when a global ecosystem would actually be UNDESIRED by such a licensee as Russian or Chinese or Indian govt who might expect it to be THEIR national OS without anyone else messing with it abroad.

If it turns out that Jolla's only goal has always been to license the OS to some organisation or authority like the Russian or Chinese government who will then support that OS only for their own uses (e.g. the Russians will only make the OS in Russian language and distribute it and software for it only on their own devices only in Russia) then it will mean that since the very beginning all those who bought the Jolla phone were just guinea pigs needed solely to showcase that the OS can work in 'real life' conditions on end-user devices and this way bring Jolla some licensees. If that turns out to be the only goal, it will mean that Jolla INTENTIONALLY and CONSCIOUSLY didn't bother to do anything about native development and instead provided ACL (just for the users, not for the licensees who do not want Android compatibility as Russians said) as a poor subsititute, so that all those guinea pigs can have some software to run on their phones and shut their traps.

If that turns out to be true, I hope that all Jolla users will remind themselves all those promises and pompous statements about how much the users mean to Jolla, how closely tied to the community the company will always be, and all the remaining sweet lies.

--

I'm sorry that my posts about Jolla are so negative but I feel cheated and mislead. I bought their phone solely to develop apps for Sailfish OS - I did not need a phone for personal use because I already owned other phones, including the Z10 which is my primary device. I was deluded into believing that it was going to be a great platform to develop for. At that time they were promising an unique, strongly supported and fully community-focused OS. The amount I spent on their phone was a huge expense for me (in order to do it I had to give up on other important expenses, most of which I didn't do until today due to lack of funds), and I spent that money ONLY because I was led to believe that soon I'd be able to offer my apps for Sailfish OS which would compensate for the expense. NONE of which turned out to be true even though it's been now TWO YEARS since then. Not only did I waste several months on porting (twice) all my apps to Jolla (which was also an expense; time is money; I could have spent that time making apps for BB10 instead which would have provided me some revenue) but then it was never made possible to release any of my apps, and that not just because of lack of support for paid software (which Marc Dillon told me would come in early 2014) but also because of lack of support for numerous Qt libs and QML imports in the Harbour, still missing even now. No, it's not that they're a small company. Such a company would have at least TRIED to do something whereas they did not even attempt to do anything. Most probably, as written above, because they never really intended to.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 24.May.2015 11:30    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

which Marc Dillon told me would come in early 2014


If you have that in writing you could probably ask for a refund and for compensation of your investment in time.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 24.May.2015 22:23    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

If you have that in writing

I do. But of course he wrote something like "our plan is to have it ready in Q1 2014" - you know how vague all their statements are, so that no one can demand anything.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 28.May.2015 17:30    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Jolla Pushes BRICS Partnerships To Target Android In Emerging Markets

They keep talking about "mobile ecosystem" they want to create with local content.

But if this part ist true:

Quote:
Jolla’s regional partnership strategy is not just about growing Sailfish usage via partnerships; it is also negotiating revenue share deals with partner companies — so it will get a cut of any transactions made via its platform. That’s the core Jolla business model.

“What we do is we integrate the payment solution to the operating system and from each transaction, whether it’s ecommerce or media purchase or any other purchase we will have a small revenue share from the business,” says Saarnio. “That’s the main revenue source for Sailfish OS.”

I wonder why they have not yet integrated payment solution for apps...

See also Jolla's press release from today:
Quote:
Jolla announces Sailfish Africa - the Sailfish OS mobile ecosystem for Africa


Found the links on t.m.o
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PostPosted: Thursday, 28.May.2015 19:05    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

BRICS, hu..... Coincidently also today the Mandriva story Broke. They focussed om the BRICS to. Past tense, that is...

http://www.zdnet.com/article/french-firm-behind-mandriva-linux-goes-ou t-of-business/
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PostPosted: Saturday, 30.May.2015 02:35    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

we integrate the payment solution to the operating system

They've been preventing any developers from being able to sell anything on their platform, and now they're bragging about integrating a payment system in their OS in order to provide THEM a revenue stream?

What is this supposed to be? A spit in faces of all those developers who've been waiting for TWO YEARS for any possibilities to monetize their Sailfish OS apps, wasting their precious time and other opportunities?

Give me one reason why a developer like me, for two years not being able to release his applications for the Jolla, should consider this news anything other than impertinence.
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 03.Jun.2015 17:51    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

(Partly) interesting read on reviewjolla Blog:

Quote:

New manufacturer of Sailfish OS phones is announced before summer holidays

...

Jolla phone did not sell as expected on 2014, but that doesn't seem to be a serious issue among the Sailors on the board. Jolla has confirmed that there will be another manufacturer using their independent operating system Sailfish OS, and this manufacturer will be announced already "before summer holidays".

...



Most interesting part in that post is a translation of finnish article from business magazine Kauppalehti.
Some interesting parts:

Quote:

Telephone company Jolla, set up by Nokia's former employees, had 4.1 million in net sales according to information supplied by Jolla to the Trade Register of Finland.

Similarly named smartphone Jolla went on sale in late 2013. Tomi Pienimäki told in November 2013 that the goal was to sell one million phones during the following year. Earlier, there was talk of hundreds of thousands.

The figures went heavily into the woods. The initial price of the phone was 400 euros. If Jolla received from one phone to, say, a hundred euros, that would mean 40 000 phones sold last year. Even estimating the profit to much lower per phone, sales would still be within tens of thousands of pieces.

Antti Saarnio, Chairman of the Board at Jolla, granted that phone sales were expected to be higher than what was realized. He still didn't identify the source as exact sales volumes.

"These numbers are useless to go into, because our strategy has completely changed. The focus is now on our operating system Sailfish OS and its licensing."


Quote:

"We have certainly learned that a young start-up shouldn't run with two strategies at the same time. Price competition on the phone markets was too fierce and hardware development too fast for us."


Quote:

Jolla gives Sailfish OS to phone manufacturers for free. The revenue is taken as a proportion of online sales made through the devices.

"Earnings are not expected soon, so as a start-up we take in more funding all the time. A new round of financing is currently on going", Saarnio says.

The new smartphone model?

Jolla has recently reported that Russia will begin to build their own operating system based on Sailfish. Sailfish ecosystem is also being built up in Africa.

Will there be a new smartphone model from Jolla?

"We do not rule it out, but we no longer seek to be an equipment manufacturer in a large scale. We continue making spearhead products such as our Tablet."


Nothing completely surprising here, but not looking too good in my view...
I'm not sure if they really have a clear business model now...
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 03.Jun.2015 23:06    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, If they pull out of the divice business then it becomes clear why all their partnerships are dead. If you sell phones it does not make much sense to invest in a phone supplyer that is quitting. Basicly everyone who has a Jolla is screwed, same situation as the N9 and the N900.

So the strategy has failed and we will have to wait and see if their new strategy will be any more succesfull.
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PostPosted: Friday, 05.Jun.2015 16:32    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Jolla phone did not sell as expected on 2014

... and ...
Quote:

Antti Saarnio, Chairman of the Board at Jolla, granted that phone sales were expected to be higher


This is really funny. As the only phone manufacturer and/or mobile OS vendor on Earth they haven't done ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to even just start building their own ecosystem. There are no native apps, there are no TOH accessories (which was meant to be one of this phone's strongest differentiators), their app store is a bad joke mostly filled with either Android apps or very simple native ones in the type of calculators and TV guides (as anything else is not supported due to missing APIs), there is still no support for paid apps, which keeps all serious developers away from this platform, and so on.

And the existence of Warehouse and those 200-300 apps available there doesn't really help, because those who haven't yet bought the Jolla hardly know about it. I bet that if I launched a popular Jolla site, based on the then existing Symbian/Maemo/MeeGo user base of my former sites, and if on that site I kept listing in my Software Catalog all native applications for the Jolla including all those available in the Warehouse, then THAT alone would have DOUBLED their sales, as tens of thousands of Symbian/Maemo/MeeGo users looking at that time for an upgrade would have realized that there are a few hundred of usable apps for this phone, rather than none at all. But Jolla didn't even bother to respond to my contact attempts.

So if there's anyone or anything to blame for poor sales then it's only THEMSELVES. It is ridiculous to blame "price competition on the phone markets" for this whereas they haven't done anything to give this phone any chance.

What did they think, why would people want to buy a phone without native software, with only a handful of mostly hobbyist developers developing for fun, and without any TOH accessories which they originally advertised as one of this platform's strongest advantages? Those who like Sailfish OS and might potentially buy it, naturally want to use on it applications MADE FOR IT and utilizing its unique features like real multitasking, Active Covers, etc, and that in conjunction with advanced TOH accessories. All of which Jolla originally promoted, and NONE of which they delivered. No sane person wanted to shell out 414 EUR on the Jolla only to run Android apps on it, simply because an actual Android phone with much better specs could be bought much cheaper than that (e.g. even just the old but still 4x more powerful Nexus 4 costing 2x less), running those apps much faster and providing compatibility with much more software and also the possibility to update to all new Android releases as they come.

Jolla's only chance was to strongly support the creation of its own ecosystem - a decent number of high quality native apps, some really useful TOH accessories, and everyone clearly seeing that they really want to make it. Only THAT would attract to the platform more users. But they did something OPPOSITE - they completely ignored it, they haven't even attempted to even just START doing it. It's been a WHOPPING 1,5 years since the phone was launched, and there are no accessories (not even spare batteries, let alone any TOHs), no native software, no support for paid apps, alpha SDK (nicknamed "beta"), still many APIs not allowed in Harbour, an invite-only developer program (i.e. mostly for THEMSELVES and a handful of their Maemo.org fellows), and not even a web-based access to their app store, only strengthening the impression among those potentially planning to buy the phone that there is absolutely no software for it, as for them there's no way to see any.

So, long story short, they've done SH*T to sell any more phones than they did. It's actually a miracle that they sold even that. And now they blame "price competition on the markets". Pathetic.

Even the Russians who are allegedly going to buy the OS from them, have STARTED FROM paying their developers to start creating applications for it, long before their Russian OS comes out. Ubuntu launched their app store long before they released the OS commercially. Tizen delayed the launch several times until they had a sufficient number of own apps. EVERYONE knows and understands that native app portfolio is a MUST for any such new OS, just not Jolla. They prefer to blame "the markets" - and still not do anything about it. Therefore, their tablet will surely sell just as poorly as their phone. They'll ship those 10,000 - 15,000 units to those who preordered it and that will be it.

New phone manufacturer? Most probably those Russians. The problem is that if the Russian government is behind this partnership then the phone will probably only be intended to be used on the Russian market, quite possibly with only Russian language and only Russian 3rd party software (if it's true that developers are paid by the government to make it). It's very unlikely that Putin would want to sponsor this platform's sucess anywhere beyond Russia.

Quote:
So the strategy has failed and we will have to wait and see if their new strategy will be any more succesfull.

It's very kind of you to call what they've done so far a "strategy". I would rather call it a complete lack of strategy. Even just by comparing what they were advertising and focusing on the most (i.e. Android compatibility) with what it brought them, i.e. absolutely nothing (I'm quite sure that if the Jolla DID NOT have the ACL the number of units sold would be comparable). And vice versa, what they've been completely ingoring and what could have multplied their sales, i.e. strong support for native development and stunning TOH add-ons. It's been a 100% miss of their target, like if they were aiming in a 180 degrees opposite direction.

Note that I've been repeating exactly the same things for at least two years, since even before the phone was launched. Their 'achievements' clearly prove that I was perfectly right. Already 2 years ago I wrote that with just ACL they will sell SH*T, as those who want to run Android apps simply buy an Android phone for that, both much faster and much cheaper. And already 2 years ago I wrote that their obsession about ACL will result in no native software and only a few geeks developing apps for this platform for pure fun. It was evident for every thinking person right from the start.

And now that after 2 years they haven't learned ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING from their own mistakes and they blame "price competition on the markets" for what they've scr*wed up themselves, how can their "new strategy" be any better than the former one? Only people who can understand where they went wrong can do any better next time. Just see what that "new strategy" of theirs actually is - they're starting it with an "invite-only developer program" for their Maemo.org friends, and with support for the tablet only, as the phone has clearly been totally given up. The lady who finally approved my comment on their blog, didn't bother to refer with a single word to what I wrote about it, and instead told me to inform their Harbour team about which Qt modules are still missing, as if they didn't know themselves what they've been blacklisting for 18 months (all those Qt libs / QML imports work perfectly fine in apps, it's just that they don't allow them in their store). This is a comedy of errors.
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PostPosted: Sunday, 07.Jun.2015 13:13    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

This is tuning out to be a huge let-down for Jolla users. As you say, they gave NOTHING to their customers, outside of the OS improvements. And by abandoning their ambition to offer a next divice Jolla users are on a dead end.

If sailfish die not make economical sense for divice manufacturers for the Chinese market, why would it make sense in Russia or even India?

Quote:

(i.e. mostly for THEMSELVES and a handful of their Maemo.org fellows)


It lookes like that is their target now, tinkerers who don't care about an audience.....
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PostPosted: Monday, 08.Jun.2015 02:36    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

As you say, they gave NOTHING to their customers, outside of the OS improvements.

I'm nearly 100% (99,999% to be exact) convinced that they needed users PURELY to showcase to possible licensees that their OS can work in real-life conditions, and also as a free (unpaid, and additionally paying for their phones) group of beta-testers. Just that - a herd of guinea pigs, nothing else. Even the OS improvements they delivered were just in order to be tested - and for the feedback the toghether.jolla.com site was created, where Jolla have been responding only to what they like. Of course, in addition to that, they also needed some money to start with - so they sold some 50,000 units and earned some 5 million Euros.

Other than that, they did not deliver anything else. How insolent it is to say that they've incorporated into their OS a payment system to provide THEM revenue on phones sold by their licensees, while at the same time they keep saying to their users that support for paid apps still cannot be offered due to "unforeseen technical problems" and no one can tell when it will be done and if at all. And how insolent it is to say that they do not plan to make any further Sailfish OS phones themselves, having made so many people shell out 414 Euros on a dead end product that they also refused to support in any way, not having even bothered to provide f****g spare batteries for it, let alone anything else. If battery replacement is only supported as a warranty repair, what will everyone do (many people as soon as in just 5-6 months from now) when the warranty ends and the original battery dies? Flush the damn 414 Euros thing down the toilet? No single TOH other than idiotic covers in a few colors, Younited client taken from Google Play (as if one skilled Jolla programmer couldn't make a native one within less than a week), and so on.

What a cr*p.

That's why I haven't launched my Jolla site yet - I don't want to promote a business that - apparently - mislead everyone, myself included. I still give them a chance and wait for them to prove me wrong - sadly, they only keep strengthening me in my opinion with everything they do.

Quote:

If sailfish die not make economical sense for divice manufacturers for the Chinese market, why would it make sense in Russia

Because if the reasons of the Russians to use this OS are POLITICAL then they do not have to make any economical sense. Building 1000 times more atomic bombs than what it took to vapourize the entire planet didn't make economical sense either, yet they were doing it until their whole economy collapsed.

Quote:
It lookes like that is their target now, tinkerers who don't care about an audience.....

If there exist a few hundred of native applications in total, from - say - 70-80 developers in total (and even that seems to be an exaggeration as I can only see some 40-50 names on Jolla's developer mailinglist), and they launch an invite-only program to provide developer units only to SELECTED ones, how many units are they actually going to provide? Five? Ten? As I said, this is a comedy of errors.

Besides, launching an invite-only developer program for "hand-picked best contributors" (i.e. providing developer units only to those who ALREADY DEVELOP for this platform) simply means that they DO NOT WANT to attract to this platform any new developers.
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PostPosted: Monday, 08.Jun.2015 16:54    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Younited client taken from Google Play

BTW, I got an email saying that Younited is sunsetting.
Quote:

if the reasons of the Russians to use this OS are POLITICAL then they do not have to make any economical sense

Even if it is a state backed OS in Russia, for it to have any significance customers need to buy it. There is no reason to believe this will be the case. I think this Russian interest is politically motivated to, and so the mood can flip every day. And if Russia is somehow waiting for SA and Brasil to join them, I don't see that happening. Mind you, there is no commitment what so ever from the Russian government.
Quote:

"hand-picked best contributors"

So what does this say over the other contributers then? This is a blatent insult to all contributers who are excluded. That is how I would feel....

This whole move to a bigger screen (tablet) does not make any sense. The non android argument for a tablet is much stronger then for a phone. The only purpose of a tablet is to run apps, so it makes absolutely no sense to buy a non Android tablet for Android apps. Furthermore the main advantage of Sailfish is the swipe UI enabling one handed operation of the device without need to reserve space for buttons (apart from multitasking). This advantage is far less relevant for a tablet that is a two handed device any way and space is less of an issue.

And the situation now is very different from when Nokia abandoned their own OS-es and Jolla started up. There are alternatives to Android that are very credible and you can buy today. Why would you buy a device with an OS from these Jolla clowns......
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