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Michal Jerz
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Phone: Jolla, BB Z10, BB Passport, N950, N900, N8, Nexus 4 (Ubuntu Touch), Lumia 920

PostPosted: Tuesday, 08.Sep.2015 18:29    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

deixi,

Thank you so much! You bring me back some hope and faith!

For everyone who donated, like always, as a small sign of my huge gratitude, I've set the golden "Site supporter" rank to distinguish you on the forums and show to everyone else that you're the ones who keep the site alive. At the same time, ranks of those who donated in the past but did not renew it this time will now expire. Of course, they can still renew them by donating any amount.

So the missing amount is now €90.

Once again, thank you very much all of you who donated. Shortly speaking, YOU keep this site alive.

Please, be sure, that as soon as ANY company (be it Nokia, Jolla, or whoever else) finally starts doing something that enables me to lauch a site for it and provide daily news, hints, apps, etc., I am ready and highly motivated to do it instantly. That's the reason why I still want to keep it all alive.
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 09.Sep.2015 09:14    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:
Please, be sure, that as soon as ANY company (be it Nokia, Jolla, or whoever else) finally starts doing something that enables me to lauch a site for it and provide daily news, hints, apps, etc., I am ready and highly motivated to do it instantly.


I know you are somewhat disappointed with Jollas current perfomance and so are most probably many people.

But: as of today IMHO Jolla is the only company taking it somewhat seriously and "entered the fray" againts giants. Maybe it seems to be too little effort, maybe it's not what some people (i.e. including you) expected/hoped for, but nevertheless it's more than any other company did. RIM seems to abandon their OS, Ubuntu doesn't really start yet, Tizen will most probably never hit the market on smartphones and I also haven't heard anything about Firefox OS recently.

Jolla has two functioning hardware devices and is actively developing on Sailfish OS (I mean, hey they had 10? 12? updates in the past and made progress on missing features). It's still a long way to go, but I have the impression that Jolla is willing to tread that path. And that's more than anybody else does at the moment.

Their phones hardware is getting old and outdated, but if I were to get a new phone I'd most probably take one that is "compatible" with Sailfish and would replace Android with Sailfish OS. Despite some flaws for now it is the only system I'm really willing to use. For daily use it has almost everything I need natively and the ACL is nice for some niche-apps that ease some other daily tasks (i.e. carsharing rental, tickets for public transport, bike rental, ...).

So IMHO you shouldn't be so harsh with Jolla and I'd really be happy if you keep this site alive. Maybe there is something to wait for from Jolla (or anybody else Wink ).
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Casanunda
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 09.Sep.2015 09:29    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

100% agree to naytsyhc's post above. Only problem being that with a current "Sailfish compatible" device like Nexus5 you won't get ACL at all because it is proprietary and so far only available on Jolla devices.
(More discussion on this should be done on another thread as it is quite off-topic here).
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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 09.Sep.2015 09:44    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Similar discussion about that on together.jolla.com.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 09.Sep.2015 18:32    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

So IMHO you shouldn't be so harsh with Jolla and I'd really be happy if you keep this site alive. Maybe there is something to wait for from Jolla (or anybody else ).

It actually isn't about 'being harsh', I consider it much more a 'constructive criticism', i.e. trying to point out what they do wrong and what should be done instead. I see that the world is divided into 99,9999999% of those who don't care (or don't know) about Jolla and 0,0000001% of those who are fans of it and uncritically praise it. If you take a look at other websites like e.g. Jollausers, you won't find a word of criticism there. If only such praises (or avoiding any criticism) were of any help (and they clearly ARE NOT considering the popularity of the platform and the size of its ecosystem) then I'd shut up and join them, but I cannot see it bringing Jolla any benefits: any new users, or any new developers, or any better promotion, or anything else. Let's not delude ourselves: the number of users and developers is AS LOW AS IT CAN BE and not growing at all. Hence, in my opinion, such a crtiticism (in good faith) is important and useful, because it is at least an attempt to point out what should be done to change this pitiful situation. If NOT criticizing (like all the remaining sites do) clearly doesn't help at all, then criticizing (if only someone finally bothers to listen to it) can't be worse than that, only better - simply because it tells THE REASONS of this situation, i.e. what urgently needs to be changed.

I've been around for 16 years and I've seen how multiple companies (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc.) died, solely due to DOING IT WRONG. They all died SOLELY because of doing things that I warned against doing. In 2003-5 I was telling to all my Nokia contacts: 'please don't kill Hildon' - they did and it was the beginning of their end - it was that very decision what made space on the market for iPhones and Android few years later. In 2005-6 I was telling to directors of Symbian (e.g. Geoff Preston who was the author of Symbian OS Platform Security system): 'don't make Symbian Signed that severe and strict, go user acceptable permissions instead, or else it will have a huge negative impact on Symbian app development'. They did what they wanted and nearly killed it, and only loosening the restrictions a few years later somehow revived it but the damage was done. I was telling to my UIQ contacts 'don't drop UIQ in favor of S60 which is a primitive and unattractive platform' - they didn't listen and SE died a year later. Already in 2007 (see my Nokia N800 or N810 reviews from 2007 where I stressed it multiple times) when Maemo was just a tablet OS, treated more like a gadget than a real product and lacking telephony support, I kept suggesting that adding phone functionality (or at least even just a 3G modem in the beginning) to it would make it a fantastic smartphone OS, ahead of any other - no one listened, they wasted two more years until they came to the same conclusion; two years which then turned out to be two years too late for Maemo and MeeGo to succeed. And so on. In other words, I rarely was wrong. Now I see how Jolla or BB10 keep making terrible mistakes, so I just can't be silent about it, because they'll end up the same way, no matter how great their platforms are.

Also, I rarely criticize Jolla for what they do. Most of the time I criticize them for what they DON'T do - and even in such case not about things that such a small company could not afford or manage doing, but mostly about things which could be done easily and without any financial cost, but in return could bring them considerable benefits. Examples?

* Native development. I do not expect them to offer free developer devices, contests with prizes, etc., because I know they possibly can't afford it. I criticize them for not doing things which cost NOTHING: for example, I can't recall them even just CALLING developers to develop for this OS. We all keep seeing how native development is quite possibly the LAST thing they care about, and that when it is more than obvious that Android compatibility does not help them (in terms of marketshare, device sales, etc.) at all. I am strongly convinced that if they started supporting native development even just a little bit (released some final SDK, finally enabled all Qt libs in Harbour, provided even just the most basic support for normally selling apps, and simply started TALKING about native apps being of any importance for this platform) it would have a strong positive impact on its situation.

* Promotion. From the very first days they've been completely ignoring it. I still can't understand how I could have been completely ignored when I was trying to talk with them about providing strong support for Sailfish OS on this site, and all I was asking for was just CONTACT. No one cared to even just reply. Neither then nor later. Make no mistake to judge the site by what it is now, two years later - in 2013 it still had around 30,000 visitors daily, so simply put it was a HUGE promotion channel because more people were visiting this site DAILY than there are Jolla phone owners even today. I am strongly convinced that if my-jolla.com was launched in 2013 as planned, by now it would have "sold" (made people buy) thousands (or maybe tens of thousands) of devices, just like it was "selling" Communicators, Symbian phones, N900s and N9s (which I know because even Nokia or SE were telling me how my website was literally selling their phones). But no, they didn't even respond to multiple contact attempts, and nothing has changed in this regard by now.

* Android. If after 2,5 years it is completely clear that Android compatibility itself DOESN'T SELL any phones, I just can't understand why still prioritize it over anything else, rather than finally start supporting native development (see point 1).

.... and I could go on for another hour or two.

When it comes to the OS itself, please be sure that I see, appreciate and highly value everything they do. I fully understand their situation and I more than admire how they keep developing it on this extremely tough market. I NEVER QUESTIONED THAT. But at the same time I just can't stop being SHOCKED by how FOR YEARS they've been completely ignoring and avoiding things which already by now could have made this platform much stronger and bigger. If they keep avoiding literally ANY support for native development, if they keep focusing on Android compatibility, if they don't reach out for support and promotion in communities like this one, they will never go beyond this completely NICHE phenomenon they've been for 2,5 years, which will be a huge loss given how great OS it is.

So how can I not talk about it? I criticize because I DO CARE. If I didn't, I wouldn't be wasting my time.

As I said, it is my best intention to launch a Jolla site AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. But in order to do this, there has to be just about ANYTHING to be able to keep writing about regularly, while at the moment (and for 2,5 years) I could only be repeating what they keep doing wrong. It would be dishonest of me to praise what in my opinion will eventually kill this great project.

I want to run a Software Catalog like for all previous platforms - but for that Jolla first has to finally start normally supporting native development and only then native apps will start coming. Or else what could I list in such a directory? These 20-30 apps worth listing?

Look, I've got so many applications ported to BB10, now 60% of them Built For BlackBerry approved (and another two to be submitted for approval this week, so soon almost all of them will be BfB certified), which means that they're of really decent code quality. And most of them with almost exclusively five-star reviews, so while majority of them are of quite specialized use, those who need apps of this type clearly like them a lot

https://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/vendor/71939/

Imagine that all of them could have been available for Jolla already two years ago (as I did the effort and ported them to Sailfish OS as one of the very first developers - and that was JUST to support this platform) but Jolla made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to offer them, and in fact they still do it. These 10 apps (and two more which I have not released on BB10 but could do it on Jolla) alone would increase the number of existing Sailfish OS native apps by some 5%, and since then maybe I would have developed another 10 if I only had any motivation to do that. 10% of apps more from me alone. But no, Jolla does not care about such things at all. With CLEARLY VISIBLE results. It's not just me, I'm quite sure that hundreds of former MeeGo developers were scared away or blocked this way. Imagine how much applications from all of them there would have been by now - maybe thousands.

So, once again, how can I ignore such things and not talk about them? No matter how great OS they develop, such complete lack of support for native development, promotion, building a strong community around it, etc., will eventually kill it, anyway.

And, once again, everything I talk about does not take any serious investments, man power, etc. It only takes FOCUSING ON THE RIGHT THINGS. It would have costed them NOTHING if at least once a month they at least CALLED developers to start developing for this OS. It would have costed them NOTHING if (no matter how much they dislike it) they would have added even just Paypal payments support to their store. It would have costed nothing to finally release an at least semi-final SDK. Then the apps would start coming by themselves. It would have costed them nothing to respond to my multiple emails, in exchange for which they would have had another free promotion channel which at that time had 30,000 visitors daily. And so on.

Bottom line: I really do want to support Jolla. I really want to praise it rather than criticize it - it's just that they need to give me REASONS and POSSIBILITIES for that. I'm not just complaining with empty hands, I've got some valuable things to offer - running a popular website promoting the platform (which I think I proved on My-Symbian, My-Maemo, My-MeeGo that I know how to do - or else why would they have been visited by up to 60,000 people a day in their best years) and bringing lots of native apps to Sailfish OS, which on other platforms have been top-rated. Neither of which is possible as long as they keep completely ignoring native development and all the remaining things mentioned above.

But I don't lose faith that it will eventually change (either that Jolla will finally change it themselves or that there will be a Jolla-Nokia cooperation which will put these things on the right track) - and that's EXACTLY why I am still here and trying to keep this site alive for another year.

.... well, but for now we're still stuck at half of the needed amount missing and no one else willing to help keep the site alive, despite now nearly 2600 views of this thread...
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Michal Jerz
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Joined: 01 Sep 1999

Posts: 29346

Thanks received:
1083 in 690 posts
Thanks given: 285

Location: Poland
Phone: Jolla, BB Z10, BB Passport, N950, N900, N8, Nexus 4 (Ubuntu Touch), Lumia 920

PostPosted: Thursday, 10.Sep.2015 00:59    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

P.S. These are the current server statistics (all the sites and the forum):

http://My-Symbian.com/download/Forum_pics/stats.JPG

Sorry, it's in Polish, but I hope that with little help you can decrypt it. It covers months from October 2014 (bottom) to September 2015 (top) which of course is only partial as only 9 days of September have passed, so August gives the actual figures. Light-green "Wywolania" is the number of requests, dark-green "Strony WWW" is page impressions, orange "Wejscia" is visits, and red is transfer in KB. "Ogolnie" is total (whole month), "Dzien" is per day.

As you can see, even in August 2015 there are still up to 11,000 visits daily on all the sites and the forum combined (and over 340,000 monthly), up to 143,000 page impressions daily (and nearly 4,5 million a month) and over 3 GB of transfer a day (and 100 GB a month). This is why the sites CANNOT be moved to any cheaper hosting than the one they're on now, this is the CHEAPEST solution that still manages to run it.

What can I say other than repeat what I already wrote: still up to 11,000 visits daily vs. (clearly visible) problems to collect even just 200 EUR to keep this site alive is really DEVASTATING. Of course, a considerable part of these figures is casual traffic, but even after being filtered by Google Analytics it still ends up with 3000 of regular and intended visits a day, every single day (and that casual traffic still takes sufficient server performance and traffic cost to serve it). And no one willing to help. One of the registered users who visited this forum today registered in.... mid 2003. Whopping 12 years of using this site, seeing this support request and not even responding. Sadly, this applies to 99,9% of this website users.
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Michal Jerz
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Joined: 01 Sep 1999

Posts: 29346

Thanks received:
1083 in 690 posts
Thanks given: 285

Location: Poland
Phone: Jolla, BB Z10, BB Passport, N950, N900, N8, Nexus 4 (Ubuntu Touch), Lumia 920

PostPosted: Thursday, 10.Sep.2015 16:23    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Two more days, 3000 views now, and still the same pitiful 100 Eur missing... Come on, people, are you really THAT unhelpful? Doesn't it really make you feel uncomfortable that thousands of you keep using this site, often for many years, and 99,9% of you won't EVER respond to such requests? Are you fine with the fact that a tiny handful of helpful people (always the same) has to SPONSOR your visits all the time? Are you really that UNWILLING to donate just ONCE even just what you spend DAILY on a glass of coke or a hamburger? Ten of such tiny donations and the site would be saved for another year... Don't you really care that it will disappear otherwise? If it is of no importance to you, why majority of you keep coming here and generating the cost that you're then refusing to help covering? The requested support is the cost of YOUR visits, not mine. Please, don't make me lose these remnants of hope that doing anything for free still has any sense in this world.
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horror
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PostPosted: Friday, 11.Sep.2015 12:33    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Here is my part. 9YC933574T493873F Smile
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BentL
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PostPosted: Friday, 11.Sep.2015 12:38    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Here is my part.

25119002DX828374R

--
Bent Laursen
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joksanen
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PostPosted: Friday, 11.Sep.2015 16:34    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I also made a small donation. I hope this site will survive Smile
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Ketilk
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PostPosted: Friday, 11.Sep.2015 21:37    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

A small donation: 0JG91731U0976953V
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Michal Jerz
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Joined: 01 Sep 1999

Posts: 29346

Thanks received:
1083 in 690 posts
Thanks given: 285

Location: Poland
Phone: Jolla, BB Z10, BB Passport, N950, N900, N8, Nexus 4 (Ubuntu Touch), Lumia 920

PostPosted: Monday, 14.Sep.2015 01:35    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

horror, BentL, joksanen, Ketilk,

Thank you VERY MUCH guys. Thanks to your donations (and of course thanks to all those who donated a few days earlier) the ENTIRE needed amount has been collected. So YES, the site has been saved once again, and it'll stay alive for another year - hopefully, finally the year of positive changes.

I am equally grateful for all received donations, but I need to dedicate special thanks to Bent who (once again) donated most of the remaining amount, without which still a lot of it would be missing. Additionally, I would also like to thank joksanen, who donated despite not using this site regularly. Thank you Bent and Jani!

So, once again, to make it clear to everyone who uses this website: you'll be able to continue using it in the future thanks to the following persons who supported it:

alexpain,
Casanunda,
ginniec,
skonstantinov,
naytsyrhc,
deixi,
horror,
BentL,
joksanen,
Ketilk.

And also ABCDKE who could not donate due to his age, but did his best to help.

Sadly, out of thousands who visit this site, no one else bothered to even just comment on it, which - be sure - will be remember and repaid adequately.

But for now, the most important thing is that we'll survive. THANKS!
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ginniec
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 15.Sep.2015 01:27    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

So glad you got enough, Michal - here's to a productive year for the site and all its members!
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traxx
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PostPosted: Sunday, 20.Sep.2015 03:58    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Sorry Michal i can't donate this time as i am in debt myself and the currency difference is almost 4.8x. A euro cost a lot here and can buy me lunch and dinner and i am currently manage my debt so no donate this time.
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Camelus
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 14.Oct.2015 17:35    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Just in case: 7FA602487A863492W
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