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Jolla in 2017

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naytsyrhc
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PostPosted: Thursday, 02.Nov.2017 01:31    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I saw your post and upvoted it as well. I think some valuable arguments have been shared. You were invited to attend next mer meeting to bring up the topic (allthough I'm not sure if that will help).

The one argueing against paid software does not understand free software != Open Source and Open source doesn't mean spyware free. But a free closed source software may be full of spyware and those apps could be available in Jolla store. But an open source software the developers want to earn money with can't be distributed there (text copied from my comment).

The most interesting argument was, that maybe even a payment system would not necessarily attract that much more developers because of to small marketshare in general. Maybe that's their way of seeing it. But it's a chicken-and-egg question.

And one poster said, he couldn't earn money with his app for android in playstore. Only something about 250 EUR plus 150 EUR from ads. I'd say, he could have earned more with a support for paid apps in Jolla store as there is less competition and a better audience.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Thursday, 02.Nov.2017 12:35    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

The most interesting argument was, that maybe even a payment system would not necessarily attract that much more developers because of to small marketshare in general. Maybe that's their way of seeing it. But it's a chicken-and-egg question.

And one poster said, he couldn't earn money with his app for android in playstore.

An operating system's marketshare has very little to do with how much revenue an app could bring. As that poster said, he could not make money on the giant Android. Why? Because of huge competition (there are hundreds of almost identical apps for every use one can think of) and because it is insanely difficult to have an app ever discovered by users in that ocean of 1,5 million apps. Countless new apps go totally unnoticed daily and instantly drown in that pile of (mostly) cr*p. As long as your app doesn't have reviews and ratings it shows up at the END of all search results where no one bothers to look, and therefore it doesn't get any reviews and ratings and remains there forever - closed circle. And making any truly innovative and unique apps for Android or iOS is now almost impossible because whatever you might want to make almost certainly already has dozens of (already known and popular) equivalents you just won't be able to compete with, especially as a newcomer.

Whereas on small platforms like Jolla there is little to no competition (so quite possibly your app would be the only one of a given type/use and therefore all people looking for an app of this kind would buy that one rather than a dozen of its equivalents), the store is almost empty so it would be very easy to have your app noticed/discovered by everyone right after you release it, and due to almost no apps actually everything you'd make would be unique. Lastly, on Jolla majority of users are simply STARVING for new, high quality native apps (fully utilizing SFOS' potential - background daemons, interactive covers, integration with notifications screen, small, fast and power efficient), so lots of people would surely get every good native app that would appear, whereas on Android it wouldn't impress anyone because there have been countless similar apps for years.

I bet that if I released my apps now for Jolla and Android, I would get INCOMPARABLY MORE sales on SFOS than on Android.

I've got 22 apps now on BB10. If I ported them to Jolla, *ALL* of them would be the only existing native apps of their kind, with no competitors. Take a look at the list of my apps in BBW and check if there are any similar apps in the Jolla store:

https://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/vendor/71939/

Every SFOS user would instantly notice them in that almost empty Jolla store.

Compared to that, if I ported them to Android, *ALL* of them would have dozens of similar apps already existing for Android for a long time and thus ranked and positioned in search results much higher than mine. It'd probably take weeks or months to have them even just noticed by anyone, let alone purchased.

Lastly, the Android's favorite "free with ads" app distribution/monetization scheme totally DISGUSTS me because I don't want to SH*T my applications with silly ads popping up all the time, and then have them downloaded by mostly CASUAL people (they're free so majority of people install them just to see what they are, or to kill time, and then uninstall them) who wouldn't even know what purpose they serve and would give them idiotic reviews like "What a useless cr*p". I want my apps to remain clean and be targeted at those who really need apps of that specific kind and know what purpose they serve and what to do with them, and that's why they're ready to pay for them.

========

As I wrote so many times, I'd be ready to port all my apps to Jolla at ANY time. If Jolla announced support for paid apps today, you'd start seeing my apps coming for SFOS next week. Of which Jolla would instantly start earning 30% on every sale.

But they just won't do it. They promised to be #unlike any other vendor and they truly are, in the worst sense of it.

And I doubt that it has anything to do with them disliking paid software and only respecting free apps, as they didn't even bother to make a web-based version of their app store (unlike any other app store vendor) to promote even just those free ones. As a result, if one doesn't yet own a SFOS phone on which he could launch the store client and browse the store contents, he can't even see what software is available for that platform, which only further strengthens the impression that it has absolutely no apps at all, and in most cases causes that one decides not to buy such phone.

How much time would it take to create a few simple scripts and HTML templates to make the Jolla store browsable on PC via a web browser? Two days of work of a single quite average WWW designer? How much would it cost - a few hundred euros? But no, they don't give a flying f**k. For 5 years now. Which - along with their stubborn "inability" to finish and polish their developer tools and documentation - has no valid excuse or explanation other than that they just DON'T WANT people to make any software for their OS, neither paid nor free. All they want is Android cr*p, of which the best example is that in their store they distinguish Android apps (with an Android logo) whereas every sane vendor would rather distinguish/promote native apps with a native logo. Even that horrible BlackBerry store with its hopeless Marketing Team had a "Built For BlackBerry" mark (a BB logo) for high quality native apps and none for Android ports, i.e. completely vice versa.

Try to remind yourselves guys when for the last time (if ever) you've heard them calling developers to make apps for Sailfish OS. Not necessarily paid but even just free ones. Early 2013? Oh, and if what they called a "community program" wasn't actually meant SOLELY to quickly sell some redunant Jolla C devices (lacking required conformity certificates to sell them normally, hence the "community/developer" DISGUISE) to literally ANYONE, why didn't they have ANY restrictions to allow developers to buy at least a small part of them before they instantly got sold out to totally casual users, of which the result was NO APPS WHATSOEVER? Did they really even expect any apps out of that "community program" if there was no app competition / submission ever announced for those who bought those ALLEGEDLY community/developer devices? Answer yourselves.

Literally everything they do proves that software development is something UNDESIRED for them. They can't say it openly, so instead they keep making development for their platform as hard (and non-monetizable) as it can be and as uninviting for any possible newcomers as it can be. It's not about money to invest or time to sacrifice (that they might not have) because just INVITING developers would not cost anything, yet they've never done even just that. So, to repeat and stress: it's not just about paid apps, they don't give a flying **** about free ones just as much.

Please tell me if I exaggerated or twisted any facts.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 02.Nov.2017 19:36    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Michal,

I wish I could disagree with you but I can't. Even when thinking about it to come up with a rebuttal there isn't anything to say.

My post on JT now has 2k views and 49 upvotes and not a peep officially from Jolla.

You are right...we are STARVING for new apps on SF.

The open source drones keep on saying it would never work "because look at the Android store!!!" "we could NEVER monetize our apps due to the small community!!!", "everyone needs to understand that free and open source MUST be the way forward!!!"

The bummer is I am/was ready to do something on my own and pay the costs up front with my own money for the first 2-3 months and let the devs keep ALL of their income from the first few months. I may still do it but I want nothing to do or input from Jolla whatsoever. I'm still going to keep up with the Opera store and try to get something going with them.

I need to try only to know that I did try and if it crashes and burns that's also ok. Life is about accepting and getting back up to try again when failure happens.

D74
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Thursday, 02.Nov.2017 21:42    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

"we could NEVER monetize our apps due to the small community!!!"


And the community will never grow without apps. A closed circle of human idiocy.

And why do those who don't intend to make any paid apps speak on behalf of and try to decide for those who do? It wouldn't be their loss or disappointment, so why bother? Clearly because their true intentions are different and it isn't other people's profit (or lack of it) what worries them.

I'll tell you what: even if SFOS only has 100,000 users, and even if only some pitiful 2% of them would be willing to buy an app of a given type (i.e. 98% of users would completely ignore it), it would still mean 2000 copies per app, which would be more than enough to make a person like me want to port it. With 22 apps I currently have (and some 3-4 in development, nearly finished), it might sum up to 50,000 copies. Even at $0.99 per copy it would be well worth the effort, let alone $1.99 - $2.99. Even less 30% of an app store's commission it still leaves plenty of money. So much for unprofitability - these are raw figures and not some groundless blah-blah.

As I wrote, a tiny community of people starving for apps is in fact MUCH MORE profitable for a developer than a giant community of people totally saturated with apps. Which I thought was obvious for everyone, but clearly not.

Quote:
"everyone needs to understand that free and open source MUST be the way forward!!!"


Surely not those who do it for living, rather than just to pass time or enjoy themselves like majority of those Maemo.org smart asses, for who it is merely a hobby and time killer like biking or hiking is for others.

It takes being blind not to see how monetization possibilities (or lack of them) directly affect everything. All kinds of online services, of which YouTube is probably the most obvious example, got really big when monetizing the content was made possible. Without allowing to earn on videos by ordinary users, YouTube would have been a shadow of what it is. Of course, there's a lot of cr*p there, but it is monetization thanks to which there are countless high quality channels specializing in all kinds of really professional quality tutorials, hints, reviews, news, reportages, etc.

Quote:

My post on JT now has 2k views and 49 upvotes

Well, if you compare it to just 25k views and 1k upvotes of the MOST upvoted request on TJC that's been there since 2013 (and the second one, equally old, having gotten just 10k views and 747 upvotes since 2013) then it actually means quite a GOOD response to your post in terms of that site's generally SH*TTY activity figures.

https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:votes-desc/page:1/

So those figures actually mean nothing, other than that majority of Jolla users don't use that site. I bet that most of them don't even know about its existence.

Quote:
I'm still going to keep up with the Opera store and try to get something going with them.


As for Opera, a few years ago I tried several times to contact Opera on their Twitter and asked them to take a look at Sailfish OS. I wrote to them that its maker doesn't care about providing support for paid apps, so they might easily become main app distribution channel for that platform if they decided to start supporting it. Guess what: no response whatsoever.

It is truly AMAZING that they prefer to keep wasting their resources on still supporting Symbian or Windows Mobile not manufactured for 5-6 years and obviously not having any future. How many people on this planet still actively use a Symbian or WM phone and buy any apps for it? No one, I guess, as those who can afford shelling out money on apps for such an ancient and hardly working junk could just as well spend that money on buying something much newer and faster, and vice versa - those who don't have money to upgrade from ancient Symbian or WM surely don't have money to waste on buying apps for it, either.

Last time I checked, with the Opera store there was also a problem that they don't handle VAT. They just transfer the gross amount (minus their huge commission - up to 50%) to the developer and he needs to do all the VAT accounting himself (including paying it to appropriate countries' revenue services). Which in case of freelance individuals is just unbearable as the cost of hiring an accountant to do it would eat most of the revenue. For that single reason I never moved my Symbian apps to Opera after the Ovi store was closed.
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PostPosted: Friday, 03.Nov.2017 12:57    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, now the title has been changed from "The pitiful state of the Jolla Store and Sailfish's ecosystem" to "The state of paid Sailfish apps, and app Ecosystem"...for more "objectivity" according to the member who edited it.

I'm not trying to be objective...I'm trying to rally the troops for the last defense before the charge comes.

After almost 5 years, only a couple of hundred apps and there are those who say everything is fine and we should stay with donations only.

I'm on the verge of just saying screw it...you can't help those who don't want help.

D74
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PostPosted: Friday, 03.Nov.2017 13:41    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

So those figures actually mean nothing, other than that majority of Jolla users don't use that site. I bet that most of them don't even know about its existence.


I think most people know about it, but (like me) find it's such a terribly bad interface regarding readability and possibility to follow discussions that it's just no worth spending time on that site.
I still use talk.maemo.org a lot more than together.jolla.com because at least you can just easily follow a discussion by reading from top to bottom.

Try that on tjc - answers, comments, reactions ("answers"?) to answers as comments, that's a bloody mess...
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Friday, 03.Nov.2017 20:24    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

now the title has been changed from "The pitiful state of the Jolla Store and Sailfish's ecosystem" to "The state of paid Sailfish apps, and app Ecosystem"...for more "objectivity" according to the member who edited it.

Amusing Very Happy What's inobjective in saying the truth that the state of it is pitiful? Sure it is. If after 5 years I am able to browse the ENTIRE content of the Jolla store within half an hour (that including reading some app descriptions) and - furthermore - half or more of the apps have an Android logo, then 'pitiful' is actually an euphemism... It's is actually a disaster.

If I ported all my apps to Jolla today, it would mean an almost 10% increase of the total number of native apps available for it Very Happy After 5 years of its existence... Does it take any further comments....?

Maemo 5 and Harmattan attracted more developers and got 10x more apps within just a few months. Why? Simply because right from the beginning they had an app store with paid apps support.

Quote:

there are those who say everything is fine and we should stay with donations only.

Those are the same people who were saying the exact same thing already in the Internet Tablets (770, N800, N810) times. It was them who were convincing Nokia to keep Maemo as a geek-only project, which harmed and delayed the development and popularization of Maemo so badly. Now they do the same harm to SFOS. That whole community (mostly originating from Maemo.org) is one huge society of mutual admiration. If Jolla didn't exist, they'd be still happily using Maemo 5 because that's all they need for their pure self-enjoyment. They don't need (and actually don't want) the platform to widely succeed and become mainstream and popular, because they feel good as gurus of that small hermetic community and all they want is to code for their own pleasure and admiration of their handful of fans. Newcomers are seen as unwanted intruders and ignorants spoiling their ALMOST PRIVATE beloved platform.

Quote:

I'm on the verge of just saying screw it...you can't help those who don't want help.

That's exactly what I ended up with after countless attempts to discuss it over the past 4 years.

Quote:

such a terribly bad interface regarding readability and possibility to follow discussions

Well, that's also true. The design and functionality of that site are truly hopeless. Yet still, while it may explain why so few people use it, it definitely doesn't excuse Jolla for stubbornly pretending not to see those (and only those) paid app support requests since late 2013.
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PostPosted: Monday, 06.Nov.2017 22:36    Post subject: writing apps for a bounty   Reply with quote   

Michal,

I'm curious what you think but would like anyone to chime in...
What would you think about someone (me Laughing ) setting up a small web site that allows devs to look over a list of apps that are requested and when delivered a bounty is paid.
Of course, the more interest in a particular app then the bounty pot would get larger.

My idea is something like an Indiegogo type thing...essentially if you're interested in an app idea you would then make a donation. The money would stay in an escrow account which would NOT be used for other [put your favorite swearword here] or to promise something and never deliver.
Bullet points of functionality would be listed that the app must have upon release and could not be ammended or changed during development...i.e. the goal post would not be able to be continuously moved all over the place. The bounty pot would stay open during development meaning that the bounty would be able to increase during the development phase.
Funds would only be released when the app fulfills the requirements of the pre discussed bullet points or would be returned to the donors if the dev states that he has stopped development for whatever reason. Once the app is in the wild it is up to the dev if he wishes to continue supporting his creation or if new feature are wanted the whole bounty pot could start over again for the requested features.

I want our devs and possible new devs who are interested in monetizing their creations to have that opportunity.
Since it will never happen in the Jolla store or in tandem with Jolla's support and the open source "you must code for free for my enjoyment" bunch will do their best to stop it, I'm trying to think outside the box how I can make this happen.

I've looked at opening my own store but I don't have the skill to start from scratch and premade white label app stores where the infrastructure is already in place cost 1000 euros a month (openchannel).

If you could give me your take on it I'd appreciate it...

D74
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 07.Nov.2017 14:22    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

It's true, that the number of peoples using TJC seems to be small. But I wouldn't say it's inactive. It's terrible to follow discussions, agreed, but nevertheless it is somewhat active and suggestions are heard and implemented. Some by Jolla itself, some by other developers (allthough those could probably live without TJC as well and just rely on TMO).

There are some questions with 20k+ and even 50k+ views but no question has more than 1k votes.

Most questions have a "vote-view-ratio" of somewhat 1-5%, the best ratios get up to 10%. So - as Michal said - your ratio (desmo) of about ~2.5% is on average level Wink

Concerning the paid app dilemma: after reading on TJC, reading here and as being a SFOS user from the beginning (coming from Meego). And after thinking about the failures of Microsoft and Blackberry I am not sure/convinced, that paid app support would help Jolla. It may have helped if they had it from the beginning, as they could have attracted all those Symbian/Meego and later Blackberry developers, but noone can really tell. Microsoft supported paid apps, Blackberry as well, still they didn't survive.

Now Jollas business model is to sell installable packages of SFOS (licenses) for different mobile devices (they hopefully just started for the Sony Xperia X). For them it could be enough as a company to survive by just selling a certain amount of licenses a year.

Anyway. I don't want to jump into that discussion in depth. I agree to all your points, Michal (and desmo).

Someone on TJC said, he is always donating money for the apps he uses, so it could be a working solution for this kind of community. Some said, the donation should be easier and be more direct. I know your argument, Michal, that you don't want to "beg" for money for your apps, but if you try to sell your apps by Jollas donation approach, you may get some revenue from this and the community would appreciate your input. You could write something about that in the app description and see how people react on it?
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 08.Nov.2017 03:59    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

naytsyrhc wrote:
but nevertheless it is somewhat active and suggestions are heard and implemented

Well, that's what I am talking about. The fact that many suggestions are heard and get implemented proves that Jolla themselves do monitor the requests. The more suspicious it is that only that single paid apps support request has been permanently "escaping their attention" since late 2013, especially that since the very beginning it's been at the very top of most voted for requests (the fourth of all), so it's not something they can overlook. Yet they keep pretending not to see it.

Quote:
And after thinking about the failures of Microsoft and Blackberry I am not sure/convinced, that paid app support would help Jolla.

No one knows if it would help or not unless they try it. And as implementing it would cost literally nothing **, there is no valid excuse for not even trying. One thing we know for sure is that NOT having support for paid apps certainly doesn't help, either. In the whole history of smartphones there had been no other commercially launched platform with a few hundred apps after 5 years.

** As I described multiple times, as a 26 years old individual I launched an app store with paid Nokia Communicator and Series 60 apps on this very site as early as in 2001. It took me less than two days. All you need to do is sign an agreement with some company processing online payments, add a few scripts provided by them to your store and..... have them do all the rest. The entire payment operation is handled by them on their secure server and your store merely gets a result of it (successful or failed) based on which you either permit or deny the download. It just COULDN'T be simpler and easier/cheaper to implement. I can't see how it would involve any other effort, either, as there's no reason why the paid app testing / QA process would be any different from current free app procedures.

Quote:

Microsoft supported paid apps, Blackberry as well, still they didn't survive.

BlackBerry killed itself as early as when Chen came to it in late 2013, i.e. merely 10 months after the first BB10 phone started shipping. It wasn't given any chance. Chen froze the development of BB10 and halted all hardware development - only the Passport (which was already in preparation) was allowed to come out with newer hardware, all other devices until the very end were just rehoused Z10 and Q10. And so was the Passport SE, merely a rehoused Passport. BB10 was buried alive by its own company, already some 3 years ago. Chen turned out to be even worse than Elop.

As for Microsoft, their OS was simply so sh*tty and dumb that no one wanted it, and even millions of applications couldn't change it. Which does not mean that paid apps didn't help. If not them, it would have died 10x sooner. And hundreds of thousands of apps prove that it did attract thousands of developers, anyway - and that's solely thanks to monetization possibilities, i.e. paid apps and ads. While for wealthy Microsoft maybe it didn't mean much in terms of money, for poor Jolla it could have been an additional solid revenue source. But they prefer to moan about being poor.

Quote:
Now Jollas business model is to sell installable packages of SFOS (licenses) for different mobile devices (they hopefully just started for the Sony Xperia X). For them it could be enough as a company to survive by just selling a certain amount of licenses a year.

Please let me remind you one fact: their Android 4.4 Runtime is just about to reach its EOL, and they won't be EVER able to upgrade it to any newer version simply because Google doesn't permit it. Very soon no new applications will run on the ancient Andoid 4.4 API level, and old apps will gradually stop working, too. Moreover, nearly all new apps additionally require Google Play services, which cannot be legally used on SFOS, either.

Which simply means that either Jolla RAPIDLY starts to stimulate the growth of their native app development (where the only real incentive for developers to come is to allow them to monetize their apps) or they'll soon end up with no apps whatsoever, neither native nor Android.

Ask yourself who will be still willing to use their OS if NOTHING will run on it except for the web browser.

Quote:

I know your argument, Michal, that you don't want to "beg" for money for your apps, but if you try to sell your apps by Jollas donation approach, you may get some revenue from this

You know, it's like if I told you: starting from tomorrow, switch with your job to a donation based model. Keep working as usual but instead of monthly salary expect voluntary donations. Would you do it? Would you be brave enough to believe that there would be enough of honest people willing to voluntarily pay you for your hard work when there's absolutely no obligation to do it?

It's not that I'm greedy or distrustful, it's just that 18 years of running this site (that in its peak times costed up to 400 Euros a month to maintain due to terabytes of traffic) and having to literally beg for donations to which only a handful of (always the same) people were responding while tens of thousands were completely ignoring it and refusing to even just click some ads, had tought me not to even think about such a disaster ever again. After weeks or months of working on an app, I'd probably end up with 10 donations in total and thousands of others using my app for free, laughing in my face and not even thinking about even just saying "Thanks". If not BentL and Nasharty of and literally A FEW other people, this website would have disappeared already in mid 2000's due to enourmous costs of traffic generated by up to 60,000 visitors a day, and..... 10 people in total donating to it. That's the sad reality about people's eagerness to voluntarily donate to what they regularly use but are not in any way forced to pay for.

So no, thank you. I already went through it.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 08.Nov.2017 04:32    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Desmo74,

Sounds like an interesting idea. Definitely MUCH more reasonable than donations. At least one can know what amount one can count on and if it's worth the effort.

Go ahead, if you manage to do it then count me in.
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PostPosted: Wednesday, 08.Nov.2017 09:36    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I like the idea of desmo as well. I recently saw that idea implemented somewhere. Was it github/gitlab?

Concerning Android support: since my Jolla1 died I am without android support (1st a few weeks with old N9, now for a couple of weeks with a community build of SFOS on my new Xperia X Compact) and surprisingly, I don't really miss it.

And: I think, alien dalvik is dead. But: community works on integrating Anbox. Probably, Jolla is following that line as well.

To the other arguments for paid apps: I know your points, Michal, and you are right (as so often). I remember the yearly donation call, but we would not have a discussion here if I'd only agree (as you know I easily could, as I have the same thougts Wink ).
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PostPosted: Thursday, 09.Nov.2017 00:01    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Nokia N9 was successful, and the thing it had that sailfishOS didn't have was a real app store, a well known and respected brand, and carriers supported it. I liked that phone a lot more than anything I had before or after.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 09.Nov.2017 11:22    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Concerning Android support: since my Jolla1 died I am without android support (1st a few weeks with old N9, now for a couple of weeks with a community build of SFOS on my new Xperia X Compact) and surprisingly, I don't really miss it.

While I do know that there are people who don't need (and sometimes don't even want) Android support in SFOS (and I don't really use myself much of Android apps on my BB10 devices, either), I'm sure you'll agree that it is a tiny minority. In other words, without apps SFOS will never become a popular mobile OS. And not even a 'niche' one, as in such conditions I doubt that it'd ever be able to reach even a fraction of 0.1% marketshare, which IIRC was Jolla's target, at least in 2013.

Quote:

community works on integrating Anbox. Probably, Jolla is following that line as well.

I have never used it so I don't know if it is any better than Alien Dalivik. But that's not the point. The point is that while it might improve on some technical aspects and make it techically possible to use newer Android versions in it, it would still remain ILLEGAL (or at least a severe violation of Google's terms) to use any such newer Android release or Google Play / Play Services. So I'm afraid that due to legal reasons Jolla would only be able to offer an EMPTY (OS-less) engine, while it would be up to the user to grab somewhere and install such an Android OS at his own risk and moral responsibility, and use it against Google's EULA.

Not only would it be risky (as such an OS compilation wouldn't be an official one but probably a "community effort") and insecure (as there would be no official security patches or updates for it) but it couldn't be in any way officially supported by Jolla, either. So I wouldn't consider it something that a SERIOUS company and serious OS might rely on, especially in a total lack of native apps.

Anyway, as much as I hate to repeat myself, this really needs to sound out clearly: any arguments that "paid apps might not help" are plainly invalid in such a sense that adding support for payments to the existing store would be a TRIVIAL and costless operation, so there would be NOTHING TO LOSE to at least try it. If there really were any serious costs involved then I'd accept that they might fear of losing money. But no, it just doesn't cost anything (other than some 1-2% commission taken by the payment processing company upon every sale - so if there are no sales then there are no costs), so there just is no reasonable explanation for not even giving it a chance. And we're not talking about something new and unknown, but about what every other OS vendor has always done and considered top priority. The rules are simple, the store vendor takes 30% of every sale, period, so even if it turned out to be a failed project it would still at least cover (with some surplus) all the expenses and at least proved that it didn't work. Adding a "Buy It" button to the store's template and linking it to the script provided by the company processing the payments just cannot take longer than a few hours.

Remember? They KNEW how to do it (with ease) when they were selling the very first batches of Jolla phones in 2013. An external company was processing all the (pre-)orders placed on Jolla.com site and paid by credit cards. As so it was also in case of accessories (like those sh*tty Angry Birds TOHs) they were selling on their site. So any excuses that it's too complicated or too costly to add payments to their site are just plainly FALSE.

Only in case of software they - for the first time in the history of smartphones - ignore and avoid it as much as they can, WITH CLEARLY VISIBLE RESULTS of around A FEW PERCENT of what the ultra-niche Nokia N9 got in its short life, both in terms of the number of apps and phones sold.

No one expects that paid apps alone would make Jolla a mainstream and highly popular OS, but if it brought SFOS' marketshare even just to the Nokia N9 level then it would be a GIANT progress and a huge profit for Jolla as well. And it is of absolutely no importance whether they plan to manufacture any devices in the future or focus solely on the OS. Google doesn't manufacture any devices, either, but so what. But Jolla prefers to keep whining for 5 years about being poor, and instead of sacrificing a few days or weeks on finishing their development tools and adding support for paid apps they permanently choose to waste time on as idiotic things as T-shirts, free Android SFOS-alike launchers, and other cr*p like that.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 09.Nov.2017 21:58    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Michal, did you ever attend to the IRC community meetings and made your point there? I wonder if they would directly answer there (I have the deja vu to have asked you that before).

Anyway, you repeat yourself and I still agree. I can't really see a valid reason to ignore that possibility either.
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