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Sony Xperia devices with Sailfish OS

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BentL
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PostPosted: Monday, 27.Feb.2017 16:19    Post subject: Sony Xperia devices with Sailfish OS   Reply with quote   

Sony Xperia devices will support Sailfish OS, see press release (PDF):

Quote:
Jolla adds support for Sailfish OS on Sony Mobile’s Xperia devices

Mobile World Congress 2017, Barcelona, February 27, 2017 - Jolla Ltd., the developer of open operating system, Sailfish OS, today announced support for Sony’s Open Devices Program, to provide a leading hardware platform for Sailfish OS licensing customers and the Sailfish community.

Jolla is aiming to release an official version of its Sailfish OS for a range of Sony Mobile’s Xperia devices - the first project is a Sailfish OS powered Xperia X, which is on show at Jolla’s stand at Mobile World Congress 2017 (stand 5H19).

The announcement represents a new opportunity for Jolla’s partners and community members alike - Sailfish OS customers around the world will soon be able to utilise Sony’s advanced mobile hardware in their projects, and Sony’s Open Devices program will offer Sailfish community members a chance to get their hands on an exciting new range of Sailfish-powered devices.

Sami Pienimäki, CEO of Jolla comments: “Sony Mobile is trusted worldwide for its premium brand and quality, and we believe that Xperia devices are a perfect fit for many Sailfish OS customers and community members around the world. We are thrilled to start this exploration together with Sony Mobile to provide our licensing customers with a solid hardware solution, and to offer our community a follow-up device for the Jolla C launched last year.”

Karl-Johan Dahlström, Director, Sony Developer Program adds: "We support innovation and development on our open-source platform. The overall aim of Sony’s Open Devices program is to build the strongest possible ecosystem of unique software experiences for advanced users and developers - and collaborating with Jolla will only serve to further strengthen that offering.”

The target is to offer the first release to Jolla’s customers and community members by the end of Q2/2017.

See also Sony Xperia X, full product specifications and Sony’s Open Devices Program.

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PostPosted: Monday, 27.Feb.2017 17:25    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Ha, I thought I was quick this time and was just about to post this news, but - as always - BentL was faster... Wink

Sounds good to me, finally having ANY device available with official SailfishOS support (Jolla C and Aquafish are not really "available" to anyone at least in Europe).

I just hope "a follow-up device for the Jolla C" does not mean they will do it like with Jolla C - selling only a few handful of devices to the fans who order within half an hour after release.
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PostPosted: Monday, 27.Feb.2017 18:55    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Yeah. I'm really excited about that too. Could be the succesor for my Jolla, if they will also offer the Xperia X compact with SFOS support.

Great news.

Many questions are still open however:

-will alien dalvik be supported
-will alien dalvik be updated to a more recent API?
-will this attract enough developers to get more native apps?
-will they now release support for paid apps in app store?
-will they now support all QT libs dependencies in app store?

They must move on now!
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PostPosted: Monday, 27.Feb.2017 20:13    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Amazing how they knew my email address to send this and the other news about the China consortium (two emails within 5 seconds), but they never know it when it comes to informing me about availability of community devices or any other developer related activities. Like the app contest that I learned about the day it ended as it wasn't worth for Jolla to propagate it.

Anyway, while this is an interesting news, it doesn't mean absolutely anything to developers. No one else will start making apps for the Jolla before they provide any means to normally distribute apps, and before they show to developers that it is of any concern to them. By then, no one will risk investing time and effort into making apps for a platform where one cannot sell them and whose maker since the very beginning has been showing that app development is the last thing they care about.

BB10 is dead now - Chen finished it off faster than it took Elop to finish Symbian. I (and I'm sure lots of other developers too) need to quickly find myself a new platform to develop for. Jolla would be the obvious choice for every Qt developer. But they just keep behaving as if they didn't need anyone to develop for Salfish OS.

When all BB10 developers move to developing for Android due to no other choice, no one will come back to the tiny SFOS even if Jolla eventually wakes up and starts doing something. BB10's demise is the LAST moment for Jolla to reach out to developers who might want to develop for their OS.
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PostPosted: Monday, 27.Feb.2017 21:31    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

I'm kind of surprised it was Sony first and not Nokia.
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PostPosted: Monday, 27.Feb.2017 22:21    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

naytsyrhc wrote:
Yeah. I'm really excited about that too. Could be the succesor for my Jolla, if they will also offer the Xperia X compact with SFOS support.

Here is list of supported devices in the Open Devices program:

https://developer.sonymobile.com/unlockbootloader/

where one can see that both the Xperia X and Xperia X Compact are supported. Since the only difference between the Xperia X and Xperia X Compact seems to be screen resolution (and off course the device size), it is probably only the content of a single configuration file that is different. I don't know if the user interface in Sailfish OS 2.1.0 is scalable so it can account for different screen resultions, but it probably is because it is based on Qt 5.6.

So when Jolla has published the source code for Sailfish OS for the Xperia X, it will only take a short time for the community to port it to other devices.

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PostPosted: Monday, 27.Feb.2017 23:55    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

On TJC someone posted, that the support for SFOS on Sony devices is "limited" to those devices from Open Developer Program. If that holds true, SFOS should be available on a Z5 Compact too. That would be nice, as it would be an IP68 approved phone with SFOS. Or is the X series "waterproof" as well?
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 28.Feb.2017 00:12    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:
So when Jolla has published the source code for Sailfish OS for the Xperia X, it will only take a short time for the community to port it to other devices.


Don't community ports of SFOS lack the Android runtime whatsoever? If so, and with lack of native applications, what is the usability of such a device? Making calls and browsing the web only, i.e. an expensive feature phone?
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 28.Feb.2017 00:49    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:
If so, and with lack of native applications, what is the usability of such a device? Making calls and browsing the web only, i.e. an expensive feature phone?


You are repeating yourself with that, Michal. As I'm still using my Jolla as daily phone after more than three years and recently having done a factory reset, I now reinstalled only those apps, I really need for my daily work. And I was quite suprised that there are only very few android apps involved.

I use mainly the PIM functionalities and have those synchronized with my Owncloud server instance and thus also with my thunderbird contacts/calendar entries on my Notebook and my Office Desktop PC. I have A native navigation app and can control my Kodi frontend and MPD with native apps. I have Logitech Squezzebox Radios that can be controlled by a native app as well and I can connect to my OpenVPN. I also have an app to view the Online tickets available in passport format.
I also have a native telegram client.

All in all I only need an android app for my public transport online tickets and use whatsapp from time to time (for all those who can't let off from it Wink ).

So yes, I really do not need android apps.

But of course I'd love to see a broader audience and more native apps. And this is still something Jolla really has to work out.

Edit: and as far as I understood, those devices in the open device program have alien dalvik support? And if community ports to a device from that program, coudln't it be likely to be that sony will support that too?
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 28.Feb.2017 19:17    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

The aim is to make Sailfish available for “practically all” Xperia handsets, see Mobile World Live:

Quote:
Jolla aims for profitable 2017

Jolla made a number of announcements in a wide-ranging company update, with chairman Antti Saarnio predicting the company will turn a profit following a number of turbulent years.

The device platform player announced support for Sony’s Open Devices Programme, which it said will provide a high-spec platform for Sailfish OS licensing partners and the Sailfish community.

The aim is to make Sailfish available for “practically all” Xperia handsets. The target is to make a first release available by the end of Q2 2017.

It also announced an exclusive licensing deal with a Chinese consortium led by Jolla investor Shan Li. The Group plans make a $250 million investment into developing a Sailfish-based independent OS targeted at the Chinese market.

The investor said the platform is “the only viable alternative for China”, with “several major Chinese companies” interested in joining.

And in-line with its strategy to target developing markets through licensing agreements, Jolla penned a deal with Latin American manufacturer Jala. The company will build smartphones using the OS and retail them at around the $150 price-point across the LatAm region.

Following these new commercial arrangements and its ongoing deal with Russian company Open Mobile Platform announced late last year, Saarnio said the company’s outlook going forward was very positive.

“After extremely hard years, we are a healthy company and are expecting to become profitable this year,” he said.

And Jolla is expecting to become profitable this year.

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PostPosted: Tuesday, 28.Feb.2017 19:26    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

From the Jolla + Sony Xperia Q&A thread on TJC:

Quote:
Will the Sony Xperia X running SailfishOS support Alien Dalvik?

Quote:
I've just been at the Jolla MWC booth and was told that alien dalvik will be included.

So Alien Dalvik will be included, but so far nothing about Jolla's plans for an updated version.

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PostPosted: Tuesday, 28.Feb.2017 20:15    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

A hands on of Sailfish OS on a Sony Xperia X, see PCMag:

Quote:
Hands On: Jolla's Sailfish OS on a Sony Xperia X

BARCELONA—The story of Jolla and its Sailfish OS is a rocky one. The company, founded in the wake of Nokia's MeeGo division being wound up, went public in 2012 with the intention of bringing its Linux-based Sailfish OS to manufacturers as an alternative to Google's Android.

Fast forward to 2015 and Jolla wasn't in a good place, with fundraising issues leading to the Jolla Tablet being cancelled and employees having to be let go.

In 2017, Jolla's now in a much healthier shape, announcing a string of partnerships and projects all around the world, including a plan to make a Sailfish variant for the Chinese market, for which it aims to raise $250 million, and a new deal with Sony, which will see users able to easily download and install Sailfish on Xperia devices.

At the moment, the only Sony Xperia phone running Sailfish OS is the Xperia X, but the idea is that users who want to run Sailfish on their phones instead of Android will be able to do so easily.

In the past it's been no trouble for those used to flashing ROMs to get Sailfish (or AOSP) up and running, but this may be a bit beyond your average phone user. Jolla and by extension Sony want to make this easy for the sort of people tired of Google but unsure how to escape its grip.

PCMag got some hands-on time with the Sailfish-running Xperia X at Mobile World Congress and chatted to chief Sailfish designer Martin Schüle, who has been involved with the project since the MeeGo days.

The first thing you should know about how the Sailfish experience differs from Android is that it's built without any hard or soft keys in mind. The usual Android trio of back, home and menu are not here.

Everything instead is actioned by gestures; you can get an overview of what processes are running by swiping in from the left and right sides of the screen. Pulling up from the bottom reveals a familiar-looking app drawer from where you can launch apps. Long pressing on any app icons on the home screen will see X-shaped cancel icons blossoming into life, letting you quit any processes that are hogging your memory.

Certain apps like the clock benefit from a design quirk that Schüle calls the "pulley system." Dragging up or down on certain lists of menu commands elicits a soft haptic buzz when you confirm your selection. It's an interesting way of doing things, but we think it's only really limited to short lists of maybe two or three options; it might not be that practical to action commands from longer drop downs this way.

At first it's a little confusing figuring out how to get back to the main screen, but after a few minutes of swiping and swishing around, it became a bit more comfortable. Like anything, practice makes perfect and figuring out the Sailfish way of doing things shouldn't take too long.

Generally, everything felt very stable and slick, with the exception of the camera app, which Schüle said was a very early build and not representative of how things will be once a commercial version of Sailfish is ready to hit customers' phones.

The purpose of getting it up and running on an Xperia X was to be able to show the world that Sailfish is still here and will be available to Sony customers "soon."

Could we live with this instead of Android? Probably. You'll be able to sideload .apk files as well as install apps directly from a Sailfish app store, so in theory should be able to replicate the parts of the Android experience you want to keep relatively easily.

The overarching theme of Jolla's presentation was privacy. Pavel Eyges, CEO of the Open Mobile Platform, spoke of the negative perception of Android in Russia, which, he said, mainly stems from "concern over backdoors and undocumented features" and a perception that Google is all-pervasive and knows too much about people's lives. Jolla announced a licensing agreement with the Russian government-backed Open Mobile Platform last December, which will see the Sailfish OS variant adopted by government agencies.

Jolla's also partnering with the Bolivia-based Jala Group, which wants to push the platform in order to, in the words of the press release "ensure technological independence for Latin America."

Whether this feeling extends to other parts of the world remains to be seen. For those elsewhere who want an alternative to Google's 'droid, now that Cyanogen's on the way out, this could be the open source OS you're looking for.

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PostPosted: Wednesday, 01.Mar.2017 14:50    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

You are repeating yourself with that, Michal.

I do, for a very simple reason: because nothing has changed since 2013.

Availability of native software is CRUCIAL, of which BB10 is the best example. It also has Alien Dalvik (and actually a much more polished implementation of it) but it clearly didn't help it at all (about which I was warning as soon as in early 2013 when the Z10 came out). Either the manufacturer SERIOUSLY focuses on having as many NATIVE apps as possible, or the platform is just dead meat, sooner or later but inevitably. BB10 death's origins are also in BlackBerry having focused since the very beginning more on Android app compatibility than on growing their own ecosystem.

You may like SFOS and be satisified with the handful of apps it has, just like I love BB10 and the number of apps it has is entirely sufficient for me, but it clearly takes MUCH more than that for almost everyone else. If the platform does not attract (mostly thanks to a sufficient number of available apps) certain minimum of users, it just won't survive no matter how those few of us will keep loving it.

Don't expect any noticeable numbers of Xperia users replacing Android with SFOS until SFOS has a decent number of commercial quality native apps. To run Android apps, MAJORITY of people will ALWAYS prefer Android itself and no sane person will switch to an alien OS to run Android apps that he could run better and faster on Android itself. No matter how silly it may sound to some of us, for majority of people the number of available apps is the MOST important thing. They just won't buy a phone that doesn't have apps.

As I said, and I will keep repeating it as long as it takes, I find it extremely INSULTING to treat developers this Jolla way: not only not to do anything to allow them normally develop for this platform but - first of all - stubbornly refuse (for 3,5 years!!) to even just SAY what are their plans and if they're ever going to change it. People like me have wasted (and keep wasting) their time and money waiting - AD NAUSEAM - for Jolla to take ANY action towards developers. All we get instead are "developer programs" which are not really intended for developers (as we're not even getting informed about them) but regular sales in disguise. The "limited community/developer device" slogan is probably meant only to make end users believe there's something special about this device and instantly rush to buy the entire batch (which is exactly what they do, before developers even learn about it). This is the perfect example of how this company treats developers, and this is actually the only example of them ever using the "DEVELOPER" word at all. I can't recall any other mobile OS vendor having behaved so, ever. No other company has ever DISREGARDED developers this way.

We'd all understand and just go away if they simply clearly said that they're not interested in having native apps. But the way they pretend not to see all the questions and requests repeated for more than 3,5 years (see in the "Support for paid apps" thread on TJC, which is still at the very top of most voted for requests, how since 2014 (yes!) Jolla didn't bother to respond with a SINGLE WORD) is just offending to lots of freelance developers (not rich companies but poor individual enthusiasts willing to support their platform). It's like showing us all their middle finger and saying "Go buzz yourself".

Anyway, as I wrote, due to BB10 demise, for Qt developers like me it is THE time to make decisions. If Jolla keeps ignoring us, very soon (within a few months max) all of us - as much as most of us hate it but have no other choice - will move to Android or iOS development. And that will be the LAST TIME Jolla will hear about us. If we invest time and effort into learning Android and iOS APIs and establishing our position on that tough market, no one will bother ever getting back to the tiny Jolla, who will get stuck with their ancient 4.2.x Android runtime forever while Android users are now at version 7. Ask an average Android user if he'd buy a phone with Android 4.2 onboard in 2017 and beyond.

So please don't worry, I'll soon stop repeating myself, as I will be no longer interested in this platform. Just like all the remaining BB10 developers. Jolla will eventually get what they've been asking for since 2013, i.e. NO ONE left still willing to develop for them. I also kept this site alive solely in hope of Jolla to start finally doing something, so the site will be gone, too, as this whole Jolla mess has costed me way too much already.

I know that the above isn't pleasant, but the truth is not to be pleasant, it is to be true. Or if I'm wrong with anything I said above, please feel free to correct me.
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PostPosted: Thursday, 02.Mar.2017 22:03    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

You are of course right. You know that, I know that. You always make a good point. I really respect your opinion and unfortunately/sadly you have foreseen so many things.

I'm just curious: did you ever attend to one of those Community Collaboration Meetings in IRC? The next one is Monday, 6th 9:00 UTC. They accept topics to be presented and discussed. Maybe (if you haven't recently) you can attend there and ask for support for paid applications in store and/or about boosting native app development and how to attract all those developers from blackberry to go the sailfish path?
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PostPosted: Friday, 03.Mar.2017 02:39    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Well, I did ask them about it multiple times over the past 4 years, and each time either the answer was completely vague or no answer at all was given. As I wrote, the best example of how they avoid giving any answer is the "Support for paid apps" thread on the TJC site where they respond to all other popular request, but this specific one (IIRC top fifth or sixth out of 17000 or so when it comes to the number of votes, and with just some 15 votes missing to be the top THIRD of all) hasn't received a single word of their response since 2014. It really doesn't need any comment, it is self-explanatory if they've been seeing it DAILY at the very top of most voted for requests since the day the TJC site was launched and they just pretend that it is not there.

So I am really not sure if I want to bother asking once again about what they just don't want to answer. It is clearly considered a taboo topic by them, for reasons only they can understand. The result of which is that after 3,5 years SFOS has 5x times less applications than what the niche and geek-only Maemo-based N900 (that even Nokia didn't consider a final product but only a "step 3 out of 5") got in one year. Even Ubuntu (that hardly anyone remembers it still exists) has many times more: https://uappexplorer.com/apps

I love developing in Qt. Even just because of that I'd prefer to develop for SFOS than for Android in its hopeless Java, even at the cost of having much less sales on such a small platform. But I just cannot afford developing completely for free, i.e. not having ANY sales at all due to no support for paid apps. They are FORCING all individual developers like me to go away and develop for sh*tty Android, which is the most annoying thing I can think of.
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